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ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

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Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#151

Post by hombre_fatal »

nkingsy wrote: post #135
kstrauser wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting. I'm in the US and my doctor prescribed Adderall for me. While I'd obviously never argue that a drug can't be abused, for me personally, I can't imagine abusing Adderall more than, say, ibuprofen. It's not that it's unpleasant to take it, but that it has zero pleasant qualities, either, except that now I can pay attention to things that don't fascinate me. It doesn't feel good. It doesn't (seem to)…

I’ve only taken it once. I woke up feeling sick, stiff, and lethargic while staying with a friend in NYC in 2008. My friend said “I’ve got just the thing” and gave me one of his adderall. 20 minutes later I was feeling better than I’ve ever felt in my life. We had one of the most exciting, memorable days in my life, just pinging all over the city. That night we went out to a club, where I somehow charmed a girl way o…

An untrained dose of amphetamine will hit you hard even if you have ADHD, especially if it’s higher than the entry level dose, so I would say it gives you zero information about whether you have the condition.

Funny story though. I have a similar story after my friend walked up to me in a club with a line of coke on his hand. Then I proceeded to charm the girl that became my next girlfriend.

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#152

Post by fsiefken »

jmogly wrote: post #118

I was diagnosed as a kid, I never really took the meds consistently. My perspective now is that adhd people are a minority tribe, very chill people living in an unchill world. I feel blessed that I have the ability to function and find my place in this world without taking the meds, not everyone with the “disease” is so lucky. Having adhd you feel alot like an alien most of the time, which can of course be alienating…

It's not necessarily that black and white, it can be both. When my girlfriend asks me to do the dishes quickly and I've still not done them after an hour because something objcetively less important was more interesting to me - then there's a problem as it's a fair request. The unconscious unhelpful thoughts and behaviours you develop because of ADHD work against you - because at the end of the day you also have to take care of yourself (cut your nails, floss your teeth, wash your clothes), not only the household. The connections you have with colleagues, friends, family and yourself are something you have to manage consciously - either with sports, meditation and journaling or medication - or both! It's easy to say, society is maladaptive. you could say, let all these adhd people just do creative work or teaching - but then they still have to organize and care for themselves. Alternatively give all those diagnosed a free pass to not meet demands and expectations of society and give them a basic income. I'd rather help myself or let myself be helped to meet the minimum demands and expectations of work and significant others - the alternative is: he can't be a responsible human being, cannot be asked to do a simple job, as he's always with his head in the clouds. Of course ADHD is also a superpower, but a handicap as well (to me).

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#153

Post by 0cf8612b2e1e »

SubmarineClub wrote: post #82
klipklop wrote: post #77

The irony about getting treatment for ADHD is that medical providers make it very hard to get the proper medication and treatment. People with ADHD are horrible at following through and handle rejection poorly. So the worse the ADHD is, the less likely somebody will be able to actually get treatment for it. A lot of people suffer because doctors fear losing their license like so many did during the pain pill debacle.…

Yeah, it's ridiculous. I've been taking medication for ADHD since the 3rd grade. Why in the good goddamn should I have to go in EVERY month for a refill for a medication I've been taking for over 20 years.

Not to make light of your situation, but women taking birth control have been in this situation forever.

It is only recently that over the counter birth control and/or three month allotments have been available.

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#154

Post by baby_souffle »

kstrauser wrote: post #104
TrackerFF wrote: post #99

I'm on Ritalin - which works for me. Where I'm from (Norway), getting a diagnosis is no walk in the park. Very extensive process, if you're adult. At least the doctors I've seen, have all been very precautious in prescribing anything other than the basics. If Ritalin doesn't work for you, they'll obviously try something other...but my doctor told be straight up that it is a red flag when some patients will ask specif…

That's interesting. I'm in the US and my doctor prescribed Adderall for me. While I'd obviously never argue that a drug can't be abused, for me personally, I can't imagine abusing Adderall more than, say, ibuprofen. It's not that it's unpleasant to take it, but that it has zero pleasant qualities, either, except that now I can pay attention to things that don't fascinate me. It doesn't feel good. It doesn't (seem to)…

> I can't imagine abusing Adderall more than, say, ibuprofen. It's not that it's unpleasant to take it, but that it has zero pleasant qualities, either, except that now I can pay attention to things that don't fascinate me. It doesn't feel good. It doesn't (seem to) change my mood.

Years before I was diagnosed with ADHD, I was offered some cocaine. It did not effect me like everybody else. I assume that it's a similar deal with adderal. You and I are who the medication is _meant_ for. For more neurotypical people, it's not a "leveling" effect, it's - apparently - an elation.

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#155

Post by throwpoaster »

Canadian here.

ADHD diagnosis is one of the few non-socialized parts of our medical system. Because of the abuse potential they charge a fairly steep fee (cad $3k+, with a $2k+ autism assessment addon) to even attempt diagnosis (after screening by your GP — referral required).

The intake paperwork alone was perhaps 100 pages of online questionnaires that lead to interviews where they schedule counselling and evaluation sessions with you.

It took me almost a year to complete because 100 pages of “often always sometimes never” multiple choice questions (with attention checking red herrings) proved to be an almost insurmountable barrier for me.

I ended up completely surrendering to their scheduling requests: “just book it and tell me when it is. I will adjust my schedule around you. Agreeing on mutually free times with six providers is a functional impossibility. Just book it. Now. Go. Lock it in.”

It took a year to get through the maze and now they’ve booked me ASAP: three months out.

If I have an opportunity to give feedback it will be that they badly need people on their team with lived experience. It makes sense that a system designed by people who were able to complete multiple years of medical education and training is effectively blind to conscientiousness and executive function deficits.

Then again, perhaps the maze is another preventative measure: if you are able to speedrun it, perhaps you shouldn’t get medical meth.

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#156

Post by alexrp »

jmogly wrote: post #118

I was diagnosed as a kid, I never really took the meds consistently. My perspective now is that adhd people are a minority tribe, very chill people living in an unchill world. I feel blessed that I have the ability to function and find my place in this world without taking the meds, not everyone with the “disease” is so lucky. Having adhd you feel alot like an alien most of the time, which can of course be alienating…

> The question I pose to the “it’s a disease, medicate it” crowd is; is the person maladapted or is the culture maladaptive?

Overwhelmingly the former in my case. I'll have projects that I desperately want to work on for weeks or months, but just can't bring myself to actually get started on without the extra push from Vyvanse.

It would be nice if society could be just a bit more accommodating for people with ADHD, but that would do nothing to fix this problem for me.

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#157

Post by baby_souffle »

teamonkey wrote: post #87
autoexec wrote: post #39

Not surprised. ADHD medications save lives, including the lives of others when it comes to things like preventing car accidents. I could even see it being required for driving the way corrective lenses can be.

That reminds me of an article I read which claimed that being diagnosed with ADHD will prevent you from being a commercial pilot. Pilots will avoid getting diagnosed and medicated because it will kill their career, even though medication may make them safer. (I suspect ADHD pilots would handle takeoff and landing very well, as well as emergencies, but oh god the checklists and schedules and that whole middle part of…

> Pilots will avoid getting diagnosed and medicated because it will kill their career, even though medication may make them safer.

Yeah, it's an issue! To the best of my understanding, it's not a mark against you if you have had treatment in the past. You can't have a valid license and be taking active treatment, though.

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#158

Post by kstrauser »

cluckindan wrote: post #145
nkingsy wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve only taken it once. I woke up feeling sick, stiff, and lethargic while staying with a friend in NYC in 2008. My friend said “I’ve got just the thing” and gave me one of his adderall. 20 minutes later I was feeling better than I’ve ever felt in my life. We had one of the most exciting, memorable days in my life, just pinging all over the city. That night we went out to a club, where I somehow charmed a girl way o…

The previous poster habitually drinks coffee, and thus already has tolerance to the stimulant effects / increased neurotransmission.

I’m not buying that. An enormous percentage of the US population drinks coffee. I’m not an unusual case study here.

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#159

Post by kstrauser »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #151
nkingsy wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve only taken it once. I woke up feeling sick, stiff, and lethargic while staying with a friend in NYC in 2008. My friend said “I’ve got just the thing” and gave me one of his adderall. 20 minutes later I was feeling better than I’ve ever felt in my life. We had one of the most exciting, memorable days in my life, just pinging all over the city. That night we went out to a club, where I somehow charmed a girl way o…

An untrained dose of amphetamine will hit you hard even if you have ADHD, especially if it’s higher than the entry level dose, so I would say it gives you zero information about whether you have the condition. Funny story though. I have a similar story after my friend walked up to me in a club with a line of coke on his hand. Then I proceeded to charm the girl that became my next girlfriend.

I’m not so sure about that. My very first dose of Adderall was anticlimactic. I was bracing for the rush from an energy drink or something, and instead felt… nothing. I was just able to focus on work better that day.

Also, cocaine and amphetamines are very different drugs. They’re both stimulants, but that’s about all they have in common.

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#160

Post by kstrauser »

baby_souffle wrote: post #154
kstrauser wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting. I'm in the US and my doctor prescribed Adderall for me. While I'd obviously never argue that a drug can't be abused, for me personally, I can't imagine abusing Adderall more than, say, ibuprofen. It's not that it's unpleasant to take it, but that it has zero pleasant qualities, either, except that now I can pay attention to things that don't fascinate me. It doesn't feel good. It doesn't (seem to)…

> I can't imagine abusing Adderall more than, say, ibuprofen. It's not that it's unpleasant to take it, but that it has zero pleasant qualities, either, except that now I can pay attention to things that don't fascinate me. It doesn't feel good. It doesn't (seem to) change my mood. Years before I was diagnosed with ADHD, I was offered some cocaine. It did not effect me like everybody else. I assume that it's a simila…

I do believe you’re right. I truly mean that I don’t feel anything different when I take it, just more focused. There’s no high, no racing heart, no hyper alertness, or any of the other stereotypical stimulant reactions. I just get more work done than usual, then go home and sleep normally that evening.

And FWIW I’m very glad for this. I don’t want it to feel good. I just want to be able to pay rent, not get high on the meds that make it possible.

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