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Fintech dystopia

fintechdystopia.com

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Re: Fintech dystopia

#151

Post by lmm »

ecocentrik wrote: post #38
jongjong wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I agree that greed is the root of all problems. Regulations are a symptom of greed; people want to protect their interests and are willing to incrementally corrupt the system to achieve it; that's what a lot of regulations are. But it's hard to fix greed. The solution to fix greed is way more radical, it's violent. The greedy will defend their interests with violence when confronted. The only non-violent soluti…

Not all regulation is a symptom of greed. Regulation can be written and passed with the intention of protecting the public good, promoting public health, preserving fair competition... That it sometimes works counter to those goals is a function of greed, a lack of accountability and and a lack of transparency. We write these laws with consistent check on accountability and transparency, but we keep electing sociopat…

> That it sometimes works counter to those goals is a function of greed, a lack of accountability and and a lack of transparency.

The whole purpose of regulations is to reduce accountability (because instead of taking responsibility for their actions, entities instead just follow the regulations). It's not an accidental bug, it's a fundamental design flaw in the system.

Re: Fintech dystopia

#152

Post by lmm »

gora_mohanty wrote: post #35
rr808 wrote: post #5

The funniest thing is why crypto bros talk about the Venezuelan taxi driver who has to pay Western Union $10 to send money home, and that is most of the justification for minting trillions of dollars of riches. Yeah OK Visa/MC have a monopoly but even they are worth less than most bros think.

Doesn't that exist already? Mobile payment gateways are available in many countries already. India's UPI, for example,had 18+ billion transactions in June 2025, and is entirely free. Yes, the government, and probably financial institutions, do track the transactions

> Doesn't that exist already? Mobile payment gateways are available in many countries already.

None of them work cross-border. And one suspects the US Government is working very hard to make sure they never do (look at the money laundering accusations against the Brazilian system for a recent example).

Re: Fintech dystopia

#153

Post by lmm »

ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #112
BobbyJo wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin was created 17 years ago. The "the use cases are coming" argument doesn't work anymore.

That means you would have given up on the internet in the 80s. That is what I mean by point 3 in my comment.

No, because in the '80s there were already real use cases. Business was being done over email, thousands of home users were paying to get access to chatrooms...

Re: Fintech dystopia

#154

Post by malthaus »

dmantis wrote: post #148

This is a very American-centric post. E.g."Stablecoins won’t bank the unbanked, because people get stablecoins by purchasing them on a crypto exchange, and no crypto exchange will open an account for a customer unless they have a bank account." Well, I understand that US has dystopia level of financial surveillance, but in many places in the world you can change cash in person to crypto without many issues. And you d…

and in what fantasy world would a system primarily used by questionable countries/organisations/individuals ever become a global standard?

Re: Fintech dystopia

#155

Post by lmm »

ranger207 wrote: post #93
ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #54

I think people here on HN keep underestimating the relevance of crypto for four reasons: What crypto is already useful for is not to replace the cash in your pocket and your savings account. It is useful to replace SWIFT and Fort Knox. What crypto will be useful for in the future is uncertain. But uncertainty does not mean pie in the sky. How the internet would be used was uncertain in the 70s. Yes, nerds were alread…

Why is crypto better at replacing SWIFT and Fort Knox rather than, say, SEPA or fiat currency (which replaced Fort Knox shortly after the invention of ARPANET)?

I would love it if the whole world signed on to SEPA, but I'm not holding my breath. And even if it worked worldwide, I don't want to rely on a payment system that can be used to censor even legal artistic expression (see the recent Steam removals) or political protest (remember the Canadian truckers?).

Re: Fintech dystopia

#156

Post by dmantis »

malthaus wrote: post #154
dmantis wrote: post #148

This is a very American-centric post. E.g."Stablecoins won’t bank the unbanked, because people get stablecoins by purchasing them on a crypto exchange, and no crypto exchange will open an account for a customer unless they have a bank account." Well, I understand that US has dystopia level of financial surveillance, but in many places in the world you can change cash in person to crypto without many issues. And you d…

and in what fantasy world would a system primarily used by questionable countries/organisations/individuals ever become a global standard?

First of all, who says that it has to be a global standard?

It's not an 'all-or-nothing' thing.

Those are instruments which already help many people (those you define as questionable for some reason). I'm actually pretty happy to see that the world has a tool to help millions of people with "questionable" religious, cultural, political, ideological views or sexual orientations. That reduces the pressure and advantage of people who want to make their lives harder.

If you don't need it, don't use it. That's totally cool. It doesn't have to be global. To be honest, I don't think anything needs to be global. That gives too much leverage to a single group at the expense of everyone else. The world is better off having many options for everyone.

Re: Fintech dystopia

#157

Post by queenkjuul »

joshtbradley wrote: post #139
wmf wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other legit use for stablecoins is allowing people in Venezuela, Argentina, etc. to hold US dollars while the US government pretends they don't know this is happening. (Officially the US does not encourage dollarization of other economies against their will.) I agree that a centralized US dollar CBDC that isn't run by scammers would be a simpler way to do this.

You think the same system that chose to bail out the banks in 08 should be fully responsible for our financial future? I believe a more distributed financial system would provide more stability for all of us. The GENIUS Act establishes some very strong standards that I believe will strengthen the economy, the dollar, and enable more people to enter the financial services industry in a competitively healthy way. A sca…

That system is still deciding your financial future

Re: Fintech dystopia

#158

Post by jksflkjl3jk3 »

lmm wrote: post #153
ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That means you would have given up on the internet in the 80s. That is what I mean by point 3 in my comment.

No, because in the '80s there were already real use cases. Business was being done over email, thousands of home users were paying to get access to chatrooms...

How are there not real use cases for crypto already?

Surely more business is being done with crypto today than was done using the internet in the 80's.

I've been paid my salary in crypto for the last 8 years. The company I work for pays nearly all their expenses in crypto. I pay for my rent and most major purchases with crypto. A significant portion of my savings is in crypto. For fiat purchases, I'll use a reloadable crypto visa card. When I travel to foreign countries that mostly use cash, I'll usually exchange crypto for local currency rather than carry large amounts of USD or deal with sketchy ATMs.

Re: Fintech dystopia

#159

Post by lmm »

jksflkjl3jk3 wrote: post #158
lmm wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because in the '80s there were already real use cases. Business was being done over email, thousands of home users were paying to get access to chatrooms...

How are there not real use cases for crypto already? Surely more business is being done with crypto today than was done using the internet in the 80's. I've been paid my salary in crypto for the last 8 years. The company I work for pays nearly all their expenses in crypto. I pay for my rent and most major purchases with crypto. A significant portion of my savings is in crypto. For fiat purchases, I'll use a reloadabl…

> I've been paid my salary in crypto for the last 8 years. The company I work for pays nearly all their expenses in crypto. I pay for my rent and most major purchases with crypto.

Where's the value creation? At some point value has to be coming into the system, and as far as I can see that side still all bottoms out in crime or scams.

> For fiat purchases, I'll use a reloadable crypto visa card.

I've always felt those were an admission of failure of the whole crypto enterprise. All of the downsides and none of the upside.

Re: Fintech dystopia

#160

Post by Integer »

lmm wrote: post #152
gora_mohanty wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't that exist already? Mobile payment gateways are available in many countries already. India's UPI, for example,had 18+ billion transactions in June 2025, and is entirely free. Yes, the government, and probably financial institutions, do track the transactions

> Doesn't that exist already? Mobile payment gateways are available in many countries already. None of them work cross-border. And one suspects the US Government is working very hard to make sure they never do (look at the money laundering accusations against the Brazilian system for a recent example).

G20 Targets for Enhancing Cross-border Payments[1]:

“Reaffirm UN SDG: Global average cost of sending $200 remittance to be no more than 3% by 2030, with no corridors with costs higher than 5%” “75% of cross-border remittance payments in every corridor to provide availability of funds for the recipient within one hour of payment initiation and for the remainder of the market to be within one business day, by end-2027” “More than 90% of individuals (including those without bank accounts) who wish to send or receive a remittance payment to have access to a means of cross-border electronic remittance payment by end-2027”

[1] https://www.fsb.org/work-of-the-fsb/financial-innovation-and...

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