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Linux on Snapdragon X Elite: Linaro and Tuxedo Pave the Way for ARM64 Laptops

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Re: Linux on Snapdragon X Elite: Linaro and Tuxedo Pave the Way for ARM64 Laptops

#151

Post by ghostpepper »

jeppester wrote: post #132
ndiddy wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly it's bizarre that a Linux focused vendor thinks it's better to keep their device drivers outside of the kernel. Why would I buy a rebadged Clevo laptop from Tuxedo where I'm stuck either running their special Tuxedo distro or fiddling around with compiling kernel modules on other distros, when I could buy a much better laptop for the same price from a vendor who doesn't even advertise Linux support and get fu…

I bought a Tuxedo machine. While the situation is not perfect (I had to install driver packages on Fedora), everything works perfectly - including standby. My last machine was a Thinkpad, and I never got it to work nearly as well. Standby mostly didn't work and when docking it, external screens would be arranged incorrectly unless I rebooted. USB ports also did not activate when docked, so I had a script for resettin…

Which thinkpad was the one you had so many issues with, and which dock? I’ve had a few issues with my caldigit ts3 and ryzen 7840 p14s thinkpad but on the whole everything works pretty well. Worst issue has been a dumb regression with the Qualcomm ath12k firmware that wasn’t backed out for months.

Re: Linux on Snapdragon X Elite: Linaro and Tuxedo Pave the Way for ARM64 Laptops

#152

Post by Manuel_D »

fb03 wrote: post #127

I'm still waiting for the apple laptop killer (a 12h+ laptop with plain Ubuntu) but it's still brittle as fuck. I'm so frustrated by the current state of the mobile computing space. I have to have an Apple locked down device, which I hate, just because I want proper battery life. A aarch64 Ubuntu vm inside MacOS runs faster and lasts more time than a booted up Ubuntu on arm in these devices. This is how far behind th…

Microsoft has definitely put a lot of work into the arm surface laptops. I'm having a good time using a surface 15 inch. I picked the lowest spec model, only 16 GM ram and 256 GB drive. But I use it like a terminal: I run vscode server on either my desktop or a VM, and the vscode client on the laptop. So the actual compiling and I think also the LSP is running remotely, but I still have a responsive editor on the client. The result is phenomenal battery life, 16 hours if not more. It also has the side effect that any build artifacts are produced directly on the server, no more uploading multi-gigabyte containers over my home Internet to the cloud. But of course, it assumes 24/7 internet connection.

I would appreciate a native Linux arm laptop, but this setup works for me in the meantime.

Re: Linux on Snapdragon X Elite: Linaro and Tuxedo Pave the Way for ARM64 Laptops

#153

Post by bigyabai »

fb03 wrote: post #127

I'm still waiting for the apple laptop killer (a 12h+ laptop with plain Ubuntu) but it's still brittle as fuck. I'm so frustrated by the current state of the mobile computing space. I have to have an Apple locked down device, which I hate, just because I want proper battery life. A aarch64 Ubuntu vm inside MacOS runs faster and lasts more time than a booted up Ubuntu on arm in these devices. This is how far behind th…

> but software on Snapdragon is taking a lot of time to catch up and it screams M$ lobby to me

On Linux?

The hard reality is that Apple invests in SoftBank, the owner of ARM's IP, and nobody in the Linux (or Windows) world does the same. They really just don't care. There aren't entrenched hardware manufacturers that want to reprise the featureset of UEFI on ARM. You will be waiting forever if you demand an ARM laptop that works like an x86 one with Linux.

ARM has been like this forever, and it's unlikely it will change due to Asahi or Apple Silicon. ARM lives or dies based on Apple's treatment of it, no other corporate stakeholder has comparable control over the ISA.

Re: Linux on Snapdragon X Elite: Linaro and Tuxedo Pave the Way for ARM64 Laptops

#154

Post by charcircuit »

userbinator wrote: post #34
pentamassiv wrote: post #7

If you are thinking about getting a Tuxedo, I suggest to get something else. I got one because they promised fwupd support, upstreamed drivers and maybe coreboot support. None of that is working even years afterwards. People from the kernel got so fed up with them, they considered blacklisting them [1]. That seemed like a wakeup call as they now at least started with upstreaming drivers. If you want to change some se…

From your 2nd link: The entire software stack of TUXEDO is tightly integrated, instead of working on a generic solution. That sounds like the same situation with smartphones, which are nearly all ARM but every SoC or variation of one is different enough that the software is customised for each one. If you want to change some settings oft the device, you need to use their terrible Electron application. WTF. I thought…

Android is not Java

Re: Linux on Snapdragon X Elite: Linaro and Tuxedo Pave the Way for ARM64 Laptops

#155

Post by Neikius »

jeppester wrote: post #132
ndiddy wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly it's bizarre that a Linux focused vendor thinks it's better to keep their device drivers outside of the kernel. Why would I buy a rebadged Clevo laptop from Tuxedo where I'm stuck either running their special Tuxedo distro or fiddling around with compiling kernel modules on other distros, when I could buy a much better laptop for the same price from a vendor who doesn't even advertise Linux support and get fu…

I bought a Tuxedo machine. While the situation is not perfect (I had to install driver packages on Fedora), everything works perfectly - including standby. My last machine was a Thinkpad, and I never got it to work nearly as well. Standby mostly didn't work and when docking it, external screens would be arranged incorrectly unless I rebooted. USB ports also did not activate when docked, so I had a script for resettin…

I have a tuxedo 14" i7-12700H with 3050. And it is terrible. Specs are nice, price was hefty, but in the end it does not deliver. Battery is horrible, charging is disruptive, power budget is not enough. All stems from the nvidia card that I paid serious bucks to get included but it makes a decent laptop into a very bad one as the power delivery system just does not seem to be able to cope with it.

Anyway I would go with FRAMEWORK there. Sadly they did not deliver to my address when I was in the market, but now they do.

Hopefully latest Tuxedo does have better hardware support? Mine has problems with charging, usb-c charging is even worse (slow charge normal performance or ok charge and 5W throttling which makes all cores go at 1GHz), battery saving feature that hides 10% of battery capacity in firmware etc. They also stopped delivering any firmware updates after a few months.

Re: Linux on Snapdragon X Elite: Linaro and Tuxedo Pave the Way for ARM64 Laptops

#156

Post by kubav027 »

ghostpepper wrote: post #151
jeppester wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a Tuxedo machine. While the situation is not perfect (I had to install driver packages on Fedora), everything works perfectly - including standby. My last machine was a Thinkpad, and I never got it to work nearly as well. Standby mostly didn't work and when docking it, external screens would be arranged incorrectly unless I rebooted. USB ports also did not activate when docked, so I had a script for resettin…

Which thinkpad was the one you had so many issues with, and which dock? I’ve had a few issues with my caldigit ts3 and ryzen 7840 p14s thinkpad but on the whole everything works pretty well. Worst issue has been a dumb regression with the Qualcomm ath12k firmware that wasn’t backed out for months.

I have the same thinkpad as working computer and InfinityBook Pro 14 Gen 9 with 8845 as home computer. Lenovo has better upstream linux support but I was able to make both work without issues. I use debian testing/unstable.

Lenovo pros:

- better case

- better keyboard

Tuxedo pros:

- significantly cheaper price

- two fan setup enables faster performace (it is stable with 90W power consumption)

- almost twice as long battery life (tuxedo has bigger batery with similar weight and size)

- two nvme slots

If you want more powerful notebook with slightly worse build quality, tuxedo is good choice.

Re: Linux on Snapdragon X Elite: Linaro and Tuxedo Pave the Way for ARM64 Laptops

#157

Post by volemo »

lbrito wrote: post #128
fb03 wrote: post #127

I'm still waiting for the apple laptop killer (a 12h+ laptop with plain Ubuntu) but it's still brittle as fuck. I'm so frustrated by the current state of the mobile computing space. I have to have an Apple locked down device, which I hate, just because I want proper battery life. A aarch64 Ubuntu vm inside MacOS runs faster and lasts more time than a booted up Ubuntu on arm in these devices. This is how far behind th…

Pretty sure there are plenty of traditional x86 Linux laptops that have north of 12h battery life. System76 comes to mind (mandatory "System76 is just a Clevo wrapper" comment).

But do they weigh 3 lbs at the same time?

Re: Linux on Snapdragon X Elite: Linaro and Tuxedo Pave the Way for ARM64 Laptops

#158

Post by pjmlp »

charcircuit wrote: post #154
userbinator wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your 2nd link: The entire software stack of TUXEDO is tightly integrated, instead of working on a generic solution. That sounds like the same situation with smartphones, which are nearly all ARM but every SoC or variation of one is different enough that the software is customised for each one. If you want to change some settings oft the device, you need to use their terrible Electron application. WTF. I thought…

Android is not Java

While sadly true, it is close enough for a Java 17 LTS subset, even though it is Google's .NET with Kotlin having a C# like role.

Didn't went out the same way as with J++, unfortunately.

Re: Linux on Snapdragon X Elite: Linaro and Tuxedo Pave the Way for ARM64 Laptops

#159

Post by cevn »

microtonal wrote: post #120
wolvesechoes wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny to read replies to your comment. One can be sure that on HN for every single critical comment about Linux viability one gets multiple responses claiming that Linux is perfect and without issues. Inb4: I have used Linux exclusively from 2019 to 2024. It wasn't that bad but it wasn't flawless. At least once per month I met some issue that took few hours to solve. Currently on Win11, zero problems (yes, I am using…

No system is without issues. We used ThunderBolt docks that worked perfectly with macOS, until one major release they became a hell to use because Apple broke something (which manifested as a display not coming back after resume, requiring several plugs/unplugs). As everyone knows, Windows has its own fair share of issues. The first is that it is not a Unix :).

Lol. I'm unplugging and re plugging my HDMI display for like 3 years now. Thanks Apple for being so stupid that you can't even get external displays to work properly

Re: Linux on Snapdragon X Elite: Linaro and Tuxedo Pave the Way for ARM64 Laptops

#160

Post by kubav027 »

pentamassiv wrote: post #7

If you are thinking about getting a Tuxedo, I suggest to get something else. I got one because they promised fwupd support, upstreamed drivers and maybe coreboot support. None of that is working even years afterwards. People from the kernel got so fed up with them, they considered blacklisting them [1]. That seemed like a wakeup call as they now at least started with upstreaming drivers. If you want to change some se…

You are right that tuxedo has some issues. But also take into account price of their notebooks. Even lenovo, hp, dell etc. are not without issues in the similar price category. I take it as cheap HW for advanced users.

But you are right that not having drivers upstream is really strange decision.

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