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Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

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Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#151

Post by rantallion »

ekianjo wrote: post #90
discreteevent wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's such a tough sport. The Tour de France was originally intended to be so tough that only one person might finish it. In other words it was set up to be extremely hard for most normal athletes to compete without some kind of artificial assistance. So there was a history of drug taking from the start. But after the scandals of 20 years ago it became one of the most tested sports in the world. So now, in my…

> drugs are not used much they just switched to drugs you cant easily detect.

Do you have a source to support that claim?

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#152

Post by 0xAFFFF »

stefs wrote: post #145
ekianjo wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> drugs are not used much they just switched to drugs you cant easily detect.

ah, the magic undetectable drug that's just the right kind of effective without the pesky side effects, which you'd need other undetectable drugs for. this drug would be worth a lot of money, but we'll keep secret except just for the one top performer, because wide distribution would increase the risk of a leak substantially. and remember: the top performers getting busted would probably mean the end of pro cycling a…

It's not necessarily a new performance-enhancing molecule that nobody has heard of, but alternative posology or training regimen to stay under detection threshold, new masking products, etc.

Doping has been a cat-and-mouse game for decades, it's not unrealistic to think this is still happening.

The fact that Pogacar this year managed to reach Bjarne "Mr. 60%" Riis levels of performance in the mountain makes you wonder if this is only standard athletic and performance science or if they're something else.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#153

Post by audinobs »

cujo wrote: post #108
gwelson wrote: post #16

I am definitely a layperson when it comes to organized sports, but from my POV it seems like competitive cycling attracts WAY more fraud/cheating/doping/etc. than many other kinds of sports. At least I have heard about it a lot more. I wonder why that is.

it's a safe bet that your big money sports (not cycling) have a lot more doping than cycling. the issue is that you can't report what you don't know. * cycling is a mix of moderate money and lots of drug testing. there are significant incentives to dope, but it's fairly hard to do these days since there is a lot of testing. * big money sports (in the us especially - nfl, mlb, nba) are the jokes of the testing world.…

Anyone who thinks cycling of all sports is clean is a total fool.

It is a sport literally built around doping. You can't take things to the Tour De France level and recover from those workouts without drugs. Beating the test is part of the sport.

In the NFL/NBA, drug testing is just a theatrical performance. I know in the NFL because careers are so short, the players basically have a gentleman's agreement that whatever you have to do to stay on the field is fair game.

Cycling though is just such a sport of watts per kilo there is no way around doping being a huge variable.

The stupidest thing to me is every player basically says they will do everything they can to win , no matter what the sport. Everything but the thing that will help them the most in PEDs. For some reason the public just wants to believe this bullshit.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#154

Post by wonderwonder »

tokai wrote: post #112

Motordoping does not exist. There has not been a single case at top professional level even though they have looked for the motors for over a decade. But journalists, bloggers, and youtubers love to bring it up as a exciting story they don't need to do any work to write. Also old men like Greg LeMond uses it to stay relevant even though he knows nothing about motors nor modern cycling.

I would be surprised at a professional using a motor. It just invalidates the entire sport and the lifetime of work that they would have put into it to get to this level. One does not get there without a love for what they are doing. Some may point to doping but I think that is different. Its still very wrong in a professional context but its still a human body at peak performance doing the work. Using a motor is something else entirely. I could of course be wrong but I would be shocked, it would be an abandoning of the entire personality that drove one to reach that level.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#155

Post by Yeul »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #136
tokai wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Greg LeMond has been on a whole motodoping tour online recently to stay relevant. He clearly does not understand modern cycling and he has a ton of people he wants to put down for the sake of his own reputation. There is not reason to believe him more than a crazy uncle.

Yes, that's what people said about him when he was speaking against doping in the late 90s/early 2000s too. Remember when he was forced to issue an apology to Lance Armstrong for calling out his relationship with Dr. Ferrari(doping connoisseur)?

They were all doing doping. That stuff goes back to the 70s.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#156

Post by pge »

stefs wrote: post #145
ekianjo wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> drugs are not used much they just switched to drugs you cant easily detect.

ah, the magic undetectable drug that's just the right kind of effective without the pesky side effects, which you'd need other undetectable drugs for. this drug would be worth a lot of money, but we'll keep secret except just for the one top performer, because wide distribution would increase the risk of a leak substantially. and remember: the top performers getting busted would probably mean the end of pro cycling a…

I would argue that history suggests this is likely. The dopers have substantially more financial resources than the testers. EPO is a great example. It was widely used in cycling for almost 10 years before tests were developed. It was pretty much a miracle drug from a performance standpoint and undetectable. The very few cyclists that tried to blow the whistle were run out of the sport. Similarly, blood doping was widely used for a decade after the EPO test was developed and no one ratted out the teams doing it until USADA brought the hammer down on Armstrong.

It’s also worth thinking about the incentives to test and catch cheaters. Do the organizers of the Tour de France really want to bust the biggest names in the sport? That would destroy their livelihood. Do the national anti-doping authorities want the athletes from their country busted (look how many national antidopingborgs have successfully appealed adverse rulings through CAS)? It’s in everyone’s best interest to bust a low level doper here and there to make it look like they are watching but to ignore the big names that fans are coming to see. All of this is also why motor doping is unlikely. Motor doping leaves incontrovertible evidence of cheating. Positive drug tests can always be challenged as either inaccurate testing or unintentional contamination.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#157

Post by VikingMiner »

silon42 wrote: post #137
VikingMiner wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UCI weight limit still seems to be in place. Disc brakes have been allowed since 2018 it seems.

It is, but the minimum weight is harder to achieve with the extra weight of the disc brakes...

Agreed.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#158

Post by Yeul »

jajko wrote: post #144
tokai wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Greg LeMond has been on a whole motodoping tour online recently to stay relevant. He clearly does not understand modern cycling and he has a ton of people he wants to put down for the sake of his own reputation. There is not reason to believe him more than a crazy uncle.

Sometimes those folks just tell the truth. Now if you are OK with cheating and this just annoys you that's another story but lets be honest here - professional cycling became pathetic deplorable 'sport' full of jokes of sportsmen that should not be respected or admired in any way, in contrary. Half of Olympics is heading that way but for some reason cycling was and still is ahead of the curve for quite some time. I'l…

The fact that rich, powerful countries earn more medals at the Olympics should dispel any notion of "fairness".

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#159

Post by bsenftner »

jajko wrote: post #144
tokai wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Greg LeMond has been on a whole motodoping tour online recently to stay relevant. He clearly does not understand modern cycling and he has a ton of people he wants to put down for the sake of his own reputation. There is not reason to believe him more than a crazy uncle.

Sometimes those folks just tell the truth. Now if you are OK with cheating and this just annoys you that's another story but lets be honest here - professional cycling became pathetic deplorable 'sport' full of jokes of sportsmen that should not be respected or admired in any way, in contrary. Half of Olympics is heading that way but for some reason cycling was and still is ahead of the curve for quite some time. I'l…

Sports + capitalism is bad already, then add mass media and you've got a corruption pipeline of massive porportions. Sports are best left to individuals and small groups. Massive leagues and pro sports? Not at all sports, but pure entertainment capitalism.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#160

Post by broeng »

Yeul wrote: post #155
IncreasePosts wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's what people said about him when he was speaking against doping in the late 90s/early 2000s too. Remember when he was forced to issue an apology to Lance Armstrong for calling out his relationship with Dr. Ferrari(doping connoisseur)?

They were all doing doping. That stuff goes back to the 70s.

And earlier than that, they jumped on the train.
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