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Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

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Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#151

Post by lurk2 »

zarzavat wrote: post #83
SJC_Hacker wrote: post #57

It was well on its way to being eliminated in much of the First World through screening during pregnancy at around 2-3 months. Alot of mothers were electing to terminate the pregnancy and perhaps try again. Especially much of Europe which didn't quite have the moral objections against abortion that the US does, save for a few countries who still have substantial observant Catholics such as Ireland and Poland. Here's…

> Some bioethics experts are concerned I do have to wonder what goes on in the minds of these people. My sister-in-law has a child with Down's syndrome and the situation basically ruined her life. She can no longer work, so they now struggle on a single income, if her husband were to leave her she would be completely screwed. To what end is that in the continuance of ethics?

You’re talking about a human person and making the case that the world would be better off if they had never been born.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#152

Post by KingMob »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #51
wyldfire wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if it's the case for folks with Down Syndrome (I suppose it's likely not), but hearing-impaired folks have their own culture to the point that in the past it was seen as some as a betrayal to the community to seek out cochlear implants. I think having their own language does a lot to create unity among them. All that above is to say that I wonder if some folks in Down Syndrome might actually prefer their…

> cochlear implants Cochlear implants are reversible. A genetic disease is not.

Cochlear implants are not technically reversible, iirc.

They permanently destroy hair cells of the inner ear during surgery to make direct electrical contact, so removing them won't restore your pre-implant level of hearing.

It's usually a moot point if your hearing's bad enough to be a candidate for implants, tho.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#154

Post by mixdup »

afavour wrote: post #63
nkrisc wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there’s a difference between appreciating those among us who have it for their perspective and differences and wishing it upon your child. I admit I was absolutely relieved when pre-natal screening was negative for it, both times. But if that was the hand we were dealt, then I’d take it. But that doesn’t mean I want it.

Honestly it’s confounding to even think about it. Aborting a fetus with Down’s syndrome? Feels cruel to deprive someone of life for that. But if it meant you went on to have another child you otherwise wouldn’t have then you’re giving life. I think at a certain point you can’t consider this stuff rationally.

How does the reasoning behind the choice to end a pregnancy matter? If abortion is acceptable at a given point in pregnancy, the reason behind making the choice shouldn't be "cruel". How would it be any less cruel if it was a healthy pregnancy but the woman was not ready to raise a child?

For the record, I'm pro-choice. It's just kind of weird that people are OK with abortion but only in weird certain circumstances. I get timing--if a fetus is viable, why someone would think that's too late to make that choice. But not the motivation behind it

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#157

Post by vtbassmatt »

cogman10 wrote: post #58
scheeseman486 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Down syndrome has significant developmental effects beyond mental impairment, lifespans are considerably shorter and while that's improving that doesn't take into account quality of life, medical complications are almost inevitable.

The mental impairment shouldn't be understated. We are talking about people that will perpetually need care and supervision. Don't get me wrong, I think it'd be great if society could give these people more than poverty after their parents die, but as it stands, unless that person was born into wealth they are looking at misery when the state becomes their caretakers. I have a child with a server mental disability, I…

This starts from an incorrect premise — that everyone with Down syndrome “will perpetually need care and supervision” — and then heads downhill. “Misery” and “ends up in a hellhole” are choices society has often made in the past for people with intellectual disabilities, but they aren’t a law of physics or fundamental moral law.

What are the ethics (and societal obligation) of supporting someone who’s had a severe stroke? Or how about a traumatic brain injury from a car accident? Oxygen deprivation from near drowning? If these are different from a congenital condition like DS, why?

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#158

Post by toomuchtodo »

lurk2 wrote: post #151
zarzavat wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some bioethics experts are concerned I do have to wonder what goes on in the minds of these people. My sister-in-law has a child with Down's syndrome and the situation basically ruined her life. She can no longer work, so they now struggle on a single income, if her husband were to leave her she would be completely screwed. To what end is that in the continuance of ethics?

You’re talking about a human person and making the case that the world would be better off if they had never been born.

Yes, that is a legitimate argument to make in a cruel, uncaring (most of the time) world. Lots of regretful parents out there who would take it back if they could. All life is temporary. Quality of life for all involved is a material consideration.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#159

Post by russdill »

kulahan wrote: post #97
zarzavat wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some bioethics experts are concerned I do have to wonder what goes on in the minds of these people. My sister-in-law has a child with Down's syndrome and the situation basically ruined her life. She can no longer work, so they now struggle on a single income, if her husband were to leave her she would be completely screwed. To what end is that in the continuance of ethics?

Because it's a form of eugenics, however far down the spectrum it may be. edit: I mean to imply here that the overton window is shifted, basically.

There's a huge range of chromosomal anomalies. You don't see the vast majority of them because the pregnancy self terminates. It's something the human body is already doing.

People with down syndrome are great people who live rich lives. But along with developmental disabilities they suffer from a great many health problems and have severely shortened life spans. Perhaps the future is such therapies will be able to initially focus on these secondary effects.

I don't think methods of preventing chromosomal anomalies are eugenics, since such anomalies are already not inheritable.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#160

Post by smeej »

lurk2 wrote: post #139
smeej wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Are you talking about real, live people with Down Syndrome? Surveys have consistently shown that they and those who live with them (which is no safari) are happier than everyone else. That wouldn't make much sense if "most" of what they bring to the world is "unpleasant interactions."

> Surveys have consistently shown that they and those who live with them (which is no safari) are happier than everyone else. Can you point to any that you have read?

Here are a couple:

- Parents: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3353148/pdf/nihms37...

- People who have DS: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3740159/pdf/nihms37...

- Siblings of people with DS: https://doi.org/10.1002/ajmg.c.30101

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