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US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

bloomberg.com

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Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#151

Post by BrenBarn »

snowwrestler wrote: post #118
CGMthrowaway wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> The tariffs are paid by the foreign producers, not consumers. The tariffs are being paid by domestic companies, not foreign producers. There is literally no way for a foreign producer to pay a U.S. tariff as the tariff is charged to the importer before the good is released by Customs. The impacts of the tariffs are domestic. If consumer prices are not increased, then profits, investment, or expenses (including sala…

> “Make it here or I will hurt you” is the overt message from the President.

And even the first part is largely random. The main message is just "I will hurt you, whoever you are".

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#152

Post by BrenBarn »

Newlaptop wrote: post #83
swordsmith wrote: post #47

Everyone focusing on consumer prices. But tariffs also function to incentivize domestic reindustrialization, which has huge national security implications. You see this clearly in the venture space as increased investment interest in hardtech and manufacturing. It's great that the federal government is looking long term again.

No one is risking multi-year commitments of millions or billions of dollars to build a factory in America when the tariffs change week to week. If you want to incentive domestic reindustrialization, you do it with things like the Inflation Reduction Act, CHIPS act or the "Green New Deal" where congress lays out clear sets of rules in law with a mixture of tax incentives, loan programs and spending to give investors a…

The problem is now it will be very hard to convince anyone to ever be confident that they can ever make decade-long commitments to anything, because anything laid out in law might be upended by a president who doesn't care about the law, aided and abetted by courts and legislators who also don't care.

We're going to need a deep reckoning with some foundational concepts of governance to dig our way out of this.

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#153

Post by BrenBarn »

fsckboy wrote: post #107
avidiax wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but if you double the cleared customs cost with a 100% tariff, many of those additional costs are levied as a constant margin, which tends toward doubling the retail price. You might argue that the retail channel can eat the difference, but it doesn't make sense to make the same absolute margin on goods that are subject to volatile tariff policies. It makes it hard to predict how many units will sell, how much…

you can't actually argue that the retail channel will eat the difference. that would be arguing that the financial market would eat the difference, and that's exactly what financial markets will not do. nor do you want them to, since the money in financial markets is your pension. lay people have a broken view of what goes into a price and a profit, thinking that a "fair" profit should be some "reasonable" percentage…

It would be fine for the overall increase in markets to be much less, if you just take the gains away from, say, the top 10% and give them to everyone else.

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#154

Post by csomar »

swordsmith wrote: post #47

Everyone focusing on consumer prices. But tariffs also function to incentivize domestic reindustrialization, which has huge national security implications. You see this clearly in the venture space as increased investment interest in hardtech and manufacturing. It's great that the federal government is looking long term again.

Tariffs alone are unlikely to have any effect on re-industrialization. In fact if not properly implemented it will have a negative effect.

North Africa had high tariffs on cars for decades. That didn’t create a car industry. But when, a few years ago, Morocco decided to get serious they made changes that last year they manufactured almost as much as Italy.

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#155

Post by csomar »

486sx33 wrote: post #68

As much as Bloomberg used to be a great business resource, it seems a bit bias now and the paywall is super annoying. However I’d still consider it a legitimate source. I can say from my supply chain experience, which I can’t really disclose, other than to say it’s substantial in my world, I directly negotiate purchases from Asia (various regions) of between $25 million to $75 million per year. If those statements ar…

It all comes down to who has leverage. The difference is being squeezed by the US government to collect revenue. But I’d suspect not all items will have the same dynamics.

We have to see how this will play out. It is a real war albeit no rockets are flying around, for now.

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#156

Post by csomar »

boojums wrote: post #125
486sx33 wrote: post #68

As much as Bloomberg used to be a great business resource, it seems a bit bias now and the paywall is super annoying. However I’d still consider it a legitimate source. I can say from my supply chain experience, which I can’t really disclose, other than to say it’s substantial in my world, I directly negotiate purchases from Asia (various regions) of between $25 million to $75 million per year. If those statements ar…

Not sure why this comment was dead when it contains an interesting perspective.

It plays on Trump’s argument that other countries are paying the tariffs and most people don’t want to admit they were wrong and Trump was right.

That being said, it’s too early to call it.

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#157

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

omnimus wrote: post #148
bluefirebrand wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Our votes basically don't matter because our democracy is captured by lobbyists

Seems like the votes somehow matter. If Trump didn’t win there wouldn’t be tarifs right?

That's assuming that the voting machines accurately counted the votes and weren't tampered with

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#158

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

fsckboy wrote: post #92
vaidhy wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tariff across the board is same as a sales tax (rather a value added tax, as it is dependent on the value of goods). I would love to understand why you think it is punitive for the ultra rich.

sales taxes are based on the value of the goods. value added taxes are paid on the profit made on the good, and are paid by the seller (because the buyer doesn't know what the profit is). value added taxes are basically corporate income taxes

Here in the UK, the value added tax (VAT) is calculated from the sales price to the customer. Companies can claim back VAT that they pay for parts etc so that VAT is pretty much only paid by the customer

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#159

Post by Dig1t »

DangitBobby wrote: post #147
Dig1t wrote: post #128

It is a tax on businesses who import things right? Basically exactly the same as corporate income tax, which Trump cut in his first term. Now the tax is being raised on companies who import goods made overseas, but companies who make their product in the US don’t have to pay the tax. If you are usually the type of person that supports taxing the rich and taxing large businesses, shouldn’t tariffs be something that yo…

It's not as simple as "companies who make their product in the US don't have to pay the tax". Companies that import to assemble here or import raw materials to manufacture here also pay tariffs. And no, thinking "tax the rich" is a good idea is not the same thing as thinking it's a good idea to add taxes that are passed directly to consumers. You're doing this narrative slight of hand where you are placing taxes that…

Right but my question is basically how is this different than any other type of corporate tax?

What is the difference between “taxes that are passed directly to consumers” and normal taxes? Don’t ALL taxes get passed to consumers?

What is different about tariffs that makes them more likely to be passed to consumers vs normal income taxes?

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#160

Post by david-gpu »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #157
omnimus wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like the votes somehow matter. If Trump didn’t win there wouldn’t be tarifs right?

That's assuming that the voting machines accurately counted the votes and weren't tampered with

Tom Scott provided an excellent explanation of why electronic voting is a terrible idea.

Original: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w3_0x6oaDmI

Follow-up: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LkH2r-sNjQs

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