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Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

open-web-advocacy.org

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Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#151

Post by kalleboo »

sumeno wrote: post #133
pxeger1 wrote: post #113

Relatedly, all Google apps (e.g. Maps) on iOS try very hard to push Chrome on you (even though iOS Chrome still has to use WebKit). When you click an external link, they present you the options of Chrome, Google (the search app), or Safari. This happens even if you don't have Chrome/Google installed, so they take you to the App Store instead of opening the webpage. If you choose Safari, it still doesn't open Safari,…

I have never experienced this on iOS. I just tested it in Google maps and despite having Chrome installed it opened in Safari (my default) with no prompting or extra steps, it just immediately opened Safari

I just had this happen to me in Gmail last week. The last time it showed the nag screen was probably a year or so ago when I turned it off, so it seems they flipped it back on to boost some quarterly KPIs.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#152

Post by fkyoureadthedoc »

pxeger1 wrote: post #113

Relatedly, all Google apps (e.g. Maps) on iOS try very hard to push Chrome on you (even though iOS Chrome still has to use WebKit). When you click an external link, they present you the options of Chrome, Google (the search app), or Safari. This happens even if you don't have Chrome/Google installed, so they take you to the App Store instead of opening the webpage. If you choose Safari, it still doesn't open Safari,…

Also extremely annoying that they implement their own share menu that you have to do an extra tap on to get to the native share menu. Amazon does this as well.

I assume it's so they can track what option you choose.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#153

Post by semiquaver » 

  > Safari is the highest margin product Apple has ever made, accounts for 14-16% of Apple’s annual operating profit
Does anyone know what this means? Safari is built in to the OS, how exactly would you measure its margin? Are they just talking about the Google search deal?

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#154

Post by mtomweb »

scarface_74 wrote: post #106

Two of the arguments just aren’t true. If you use another browser today even if it does use Apple’s engine, Apple’s not making search revenue from Google. The second point is that it came out in the Epic trial that 90% of App Store revenue comes from games and in app purchasing. Those apps are not going to the web. Third, if the only thing stopping great web apps is Apple, why aren’t their popular web apps for Androi…

1. If you use either "Safari" or "Chrome" on iOS, then Apple gets paid. That's 97% of the market on iOS.

2. Many of those games could be rewritten in WebGPU/WebGL2.. if it saved them 30% appstore tax, and the install process was decent and they had frictionless payments, they'd move.

3. Because Apple is the primary target market, and if you've already built native for iOS, what's the advantage of doing web for Android if your not making the cost savings of only having to build one app. 70% of Desktop usage is now the web/web apps... that tells you what's possible if browsers can compete.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#155

Post by op00to »

stockresearcher wrote: post #103

Even if you get past the roadblocks Apple has put in place, it’s not beer and skittles for browser makers in the EU. The CRA, which is now in effect, lists browsers as class I important products. Technical documentation, design documentation, user documentation, security conformance testing, a declared support period at the time of download, software bill of materials, the legal obligation to respond to and make all…

Holy cow, they’re serious:

Penalties:

• Up to €15 million or 2.5 % of global turnover for essential requirement failures.

• €10 million or 2 % turnover for other obligations.

• €5 million or 1 % turnover for misleading or incomplete documents

On the one hand, these are important standards. On the other, it seems impossible for small shops to adhere to a lot of this.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#156

Post by agust »

rgovostes wrote: post #136
agust wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Browser engines define the capabilities of web apps and websites. When they don't support APIs or have bugs, they impact negatively web software. Apple's WebKit is renowned to be lagging behind, refusing to implement crucial features and being rigged with bugs, hence limiting the capabilities and quality of web apps, and effectively preventing them to compete with native apps. Getting other browser engines on iOS wou…

So these web apps will prompt the user to install and configure a third-party browser engine?

The likely outcome of alternate, capable browser engines coming to iOS will be to push Apple to invest in Safari so it can compete with them and not loose all of its market share.

Otherwise, yes it's likely web apps will prompt their user to use a browser with a capable engine on iOS if they exist. Nothing to configure, install and use.

Users will then be able to use capable web apps that take up a tenth of the storage of native apps, that are cheaper and portable across platforms — among many other benefits.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#158

Post by jermaustin1 »

fkyoureadthedoc wrote: post #152
pxeger1 wrote: post #113

Relatedly, all Google apps (e.g. Maps) on iOS try very hard to push Chrome on you (even though iOS Chrome still has to use WebKit). When you click an external link, they present you the options of Chrome, Google (the search app), or Safari. This happens even if you don't have Chrome/Google installed, so they take you to the App Store instead of opening the webpage. If you choose Safari, it still doesn't open Safari,…

Also extremely annoying that they implement their own share menu that you have to do an extra tap on to get to the native share menu. Amazon does this as well. I assume it's so they can track what option you choose.

Reddit does this, too. It is used to measure sharing something as some sort of analytic/goal on your account for engagement. I tend to just screenshot them now after the annoying middle menu started popping up for me.

I really am not a fan of apps wanting me to engage more with the app when I'm trying to engage with real-life people.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#159

Post by FirmwareBurner »

op00to wrote: post #155
stockresearcher wrote: post #103

Even if you get past the roadblocks Apple has put in place, it’s not beer and skittles for browser makers in the EU. The CRA, which is now in effect, lists browsers as class I important products. Technical documentation, design documentation, user documentation, security conformance testing, a declared support period at the time of download, software bill of materials, the legal obligation to respond to and make all…

Holy cow, they’re serious: Penalties: • Up to €15 million or 2.5 % of global turnover for essential requirement failures. • €10 million or 2 % turnover for other obligations. • €5 million or 1 % turnover for misleading or incomplete documents On the one hand, these are important standards. On the other, it seems impossible for small shops to adhere to a lot of this.

Hear me out, I have a tinfoil hat theory. What if, those requirements weren't put to help small shops making a new browser, but to guarantee the big shops who already have a browser are getting fined? *hits bong*

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#160

Post by fkyoureadthedoc »

resource_waste wrote: post #132
selckin wrote: post #6

This Apple policy is the only thing stopping chrome from having a full monopoly, and we should be careful trying to remove it

That is some wild moral coating.

It's the unfortunate truth. Nobody gives a shit about Firefox, not even Mozilla. Safari is the only major non chromium browser. You get rid of it and Google basically has full control of web standards and we've come full circle.
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