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Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

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Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#151

Post by wiseowise »

grishka wrote: post #86
anal_reactor wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole attitude against AI reminds me of my parents being upset that the internet changed the way they live. They refused to take part in the internet revolution, and now they're surprised that they don't know how to navigate the web. I think that a part of them is still waiting for computers in general to magically disappear, and everything return to the times of their youth.

The internet actually enabled us to do new things. AI is nothing of that sort. It just generates mediocre statistically-plausible text.

Delusional take.

I’m not even heavily invested into AI, just a casual user, and it drastically cut amount of bullshit that I have to deal with in modern computing landscape.

Search, summarization, automation. All of this drastically improved with the most superior interface of them all - natural text.

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#152

Post by wiseowise »

rapnie wrote: post #87
anal_reactor wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole attitude against AI reminds me of my parents being upset that the internet changed the way they live. They refused to take part in the internet revolution, and now they're surprised that they don't know how to navigate the web. I think that a part of them is still waiting for computers in general to magically disappear, and everything return to the times of their youth.

While the "move fast and break things" rushed embrace of anything AI reminds me of young wild children, who are blissfully unaware of any danger while their responsible parents try to keep them safe. It is lovely if children can believe in magic, but part of growing up involves facing reality and making responsible choices.

Right, the same “responsible parents” who don’t know what to press so their phone plays YouTube video or don’t know how that “juicy milfs in your area” banner got in their internet explorer.

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#153

Post by agentcoops »

wiseowise wrote: post #149
agentcoops wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed — however it’s interesting that unlike the internet, computers or smartphones the older generation, like the younger, immediately found the use of GPT. This is reflected in the latest Mary Meeker report where it’s apparent that the /organic/ growth of AI use is unparalleled in the history of technology [1]. In my experience with my own parents’ use, GPT is the first time the older generation has found an intui…

> I’m still stunned to wander into threads like this where all the same talking points of AI being “pushed” on people are parroted. Where else would AI haters find an echo chamber that proves their point?

It's wild -- I've never seen such a persistent split in the Hacker News audience like this one. The skeptics read one set of AI articles, everyone else the others; a similar comment will be praised in one thread and down-voted to oblivion in another.

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#154

Post by sorcerer-mar »

saubeidl wrote: post #63
barrkel wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is in fact the goal of Russian style propaganda. You have successfully been targeted. The idea is to spread so much confusion that you just throw up your hands and say, I'm not going to try and figure out what's going on any more. That saps your will to be political, to morally judge actions and support efforts to punish wrongdoers. https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

[flagged]

If there's one underlying axiom of western thought it is "question everything." So no, not really.

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#155

Post by wiseowise »

willis936 wrote: post #140
mentalgear wrote: post #41

"Ultimately, the only way forward is better cognition, including systems that can evaluate news sources, understand satire, and so forth. But that will require deeper forms of reasoning, better integrated into the process, and systems sharp enough to fact check to their own outputs. All of which may require a fundamental rethink. In the meantime, systems of naive mimicry and regurgitation, such as the AIs we have now…

The answer isn't a technical advancement but a cultural shift. We need to develop a discipline of skepticism and mistrust. No amount of authority, understanding, reasoning, etc. can be delegated to something that comes from a screen. This will take generations.

> We need to develop a discipline of skepticism and mistrust. No amount of authority, understanding, reasoning, etc. can be delegated to something that comes from a screen. This will take generations.

Authoritarian dream.

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#156

Post by wiseowise »

saubeidl wrote: post #63
barrkel wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is in fact the goal of Russian style propaganda. You have successfully been targeted. The idea is to spread so much confusion that you just throw up your hands and say, I'm not going to try and figure out what's going on any more. That saps your will to be political, to morally judge actions and support efforts to punish wrongdoers. https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#157

Post by wiseowise »

zer00eyz wrote: post #90
scrollop wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now, why are you spending misinformation? The russian military doctrine of spreading a "firehouse of falsehood" is well documented. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_disinformation And yet, you switch it around and blame the west - exactly as per russian misinformation doctrine. Odd, eh?

> Now, why are you spending misinformation? Are you going to claim that US politicians don't do the exact same thing? This is my favorite example of it, where one literally tells you what the play is while it's getting made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnhJWusyj4I Feelings not facts.

He posted a YouTube video! West is in shambles! They’re onto us!

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#158

Post by morngn »

imiric wrote: post #62
dns_snek wrote: post #9

If actions by these bad actors accelerate the rate at which people lose trust in these systems and lead to the AI bubble popping faster then they have my full support. The entire space is just bad actors complaining about other bad actors while they're collectively ruining the web for everyone, each in their own way.

Before the bubble does pop, which I think is inevitable, there will be many stories like this one, and a lot of people will be scammed, manipulated, and harmed. It might take years until the general consensus is negative about the effects of these tools. All while the wealthy and powerful continue to reap the benefits, while those on slightly lower rungs fight to take their place. And even if the public perception sh…

The bubble won’t pop on anything that’s correlated with scammers. Exhibit A: bitcoin. The problem is not one of public knowledge or will of the people, it’s congress being irresponsible because it’s captured by the 2 parties. You can’t politicize scamming in a way that benefits either party so nothing happens. And the scammers themselves may be big donors (eg SBF’s ties to the dem party, certain ai players purchase of Trump’s favor with respect to their business interests, etc). Scammers all the way down.

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#159

Post by wiseowise »

diggan wrote: post #55
barrkel wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is in fact the goal of Russian style propaganda. You have successfully been targeted. The idea is to spread so much confusion that you just throw up your hands and say, I'm not going to try and figure out what's going on any more. That saps your will to be political, to morally judge actions and support efforts to punish wrongdoers. https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

What you're saying is certainly an established propaganda strategy of Russia (and others), but what parent is saying is also true, "truth" isn't always black and white, and what is the desired behavior in one country can be the opposite in another. For example, it is the truth that the Golf of Mexico is called the Gulf of America in the US, but Golf of Mexico everywhere else. What is the "correct" truth? Well, there…

Brandolini’s law in action.

Parent is arguing one thing, show up with some bullshit argument and watch dozen comments arguing about Gulf of Mexico instead of discussing original point.

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#160

Post by willis936 »

wiseowise wrote: post #155
willis936 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer isn't a technical advancement but a cultural shift. We need to develop a discipline of skepticism and mistrust. No amount of authority, understanding, reasoning, etc. can be delegated to something that comes from a screen. This will take generations.

> We need to develop a discipline of skepticism and mistrust. No amount of authority, understanding, reasoning, etc. can be delegated to something that comes from a screen. This will take generations. Authoritarian dream.

Please elaborate. Authoritarians seek to consolidate power, which AI enables. Individuals must build immunity to reality distortion fields. This comes from within, not from some centralized authority.
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