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The Rise of Whatever

eev.ee

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Re: The Rise of Whatever

#151

Post by ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 »

lmm wrote: post #144
ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> LLMs lower the technical debt spread by the clueless, to a lower baseline. Yeah? What about what LLMs help with? Do you have no code that could use translation (move code that looks like this to code that looks like that)? LLMs are real good with that, and they save dozens of hours on single sentence prompt tasks, even if you have to review them. Or is it all bad? I have made $10ks this year alone on what LLMs do,…

> Do you have no code that could use translation (move code that looks like this to code that looks like that)? Only bad code, and what takes the time is understanding it, not rewriting it, and the LLM doesn't make that part any quicker. > they save dozens of hours on single sentence prompt tasks, even if you have to review them Really? How are you reviewing quicker than you could write? Unless the code is just a pil…

> Really? How are you reviewing quicker than you could write? Unless the code is just a pile of verbose whatever, reviewing it is slower than writing it, and a lot less fun too.

Well, humans typically read way faster than they write, and if you own the code, have a strict style guide, etc, it is often pretty simple to understand new or modified code, unless you are dealing with a novel concept, which I wouldn't trust a LLM with anyway.

Also, these non-human entities we are discussing tend to output code very fast.

Re: The Rise of Whatever

#152

Post by dwedge »

It's probably just me but I really struggle to read this whiney tone that became common around ten years ago. It's not about the subject matter itself, it's about the jokes that are always sad somehow, the font choice, the tone of the language. Some kind of perpetual-victim style of writing.

Re: The Rise of Whatever

#153

Post by Shorel »

62702b077f3 wrote: post #6
tptacek wrote: post #2

LLM output is crap. It’s just crap. It sucks, and is bad. Still don't get it. LLM outputs are nondeterministic. LLMs invent APIs that don't exist. That's why you filter those outputs through agent constructions, which actually compile code. The nondeterminism of LLMs don't make your compiler nondeterministic. All sorts of ways to knock LLM-generated code. Most I disagree with, all colorable. But this article is based…

> The garbage generator generates garbage, but if you run it enough times it gets something slightly-less-garbage that can satisfy a compiler! You're stupid if you don't think this is awesome!

You are right about this.

Also, someone mathematically proved that's enough. And then someone else proved it empirically.

There was an experiment where they trained 16 pigeons to detect cancerous or benign tumours from photographies.

Individually, each pigeon had an average 85% accuracy. But all pigeons (except for one outlier) together had an accuracy of 99%.

If you add enough silly brains, you get one super smart brain.

Re: The Rise of Whatever

#154

Post by eviks »

tptacek wrote: post #119
eviks wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or they suggested an elaborate and tedious workaround that would technically solve the problem (but introduce new ones). There is no value in randomly choosing an API that exists. There is value in choosing an API that works. When LLM makes up an API that doesn't even exist it indicates that it's not tied to the reality of the task of fetching a working API, so filtering out nonexistent APIs will not help the other…

Give me a break. First, that's not the claim the article makes. Second, that's not the experience of anybody who actually uses Claude Code or Gemini Desktop or whatever people are using this week. This is what I'm talking about: people just gaslighting. LLMs can write truly shitty code. I have a a lot . But they don't fail the way you or this article claim they do. Enough.

First, it is, you've just reduced the forest article claim down to a single tree to make it appear like your "solution" cuts it.

Second, speak for yourself, you have no clue about everybody's experience to make such a universal claim.

Lastly, the article talks about author's experience, not yours, so you're the only one who can gaslight the author, not the other way around

Re: The Rise of Whatever

#156

Post by tptacek »

eviks wrote: post #154
tptacek wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me a break. First, that's not the claim the article makes. Second, that's not the experience of anybody who actually uses Claude Code or Gemini Desktop or whatever people are using this week. This is what I'm talking about: people just gaslighting. LLMs can write truly shitty code. I have a a lot . But they don't fail the way you or this article claim they do. Enough.

First, it is, you've just reduced the forest article claim down to a single tree to make it appear like your "solution" cuts it. Second, speak for yourself, you have no clue about everybody's experience to make such a universal claim. Lastly, the article talks about author's experience, not yours, so you're the only one who can gaslight the author, not the other way around

I'm comfortable with the assertions I'm making here and stand by them.

Re: The Rise of Whatever

#157

Post by dofubej »

zpeti wrote: post #132
dalemhurley wrote: post #111

> "live in some futuristic utopia like the EU where banks consider "send money to people" to be core functionality. But here in the good ol' U S of A, where material progress requires significant amounts of kicking and screaming, you had PayPal." I remember when PayPal came to Australia, I was so confused by it as I could just send money via internet banking. Then they tried to lobby the government to make our bankin…

I don't get this sentence. It's pretty damn hard sending money in the EU too. We only had SWIFT and CHAPS too like in the USA. The EU isn't some banking haven with ultrafast transfers. If they are talking about the new legislation about fast transfers (SEPA), that came 1 decade after paypal.

We currently (as in the for the last months) have instant transfers but for the longest time we didn’t and had to use PayPal as well if we wanted to send somebody money instantly without paying the bank an extra for it. I’m confused as to what the article means. It’s possible the author is misinformed.

Re: The Rise of Whatever

#158

Post by Lariscus »

Shorel wrote: post #153
62702b077f3 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The garbage generator generates garbage, but if you run it enough times it gets something slightly-less-garbage that can satisfy a compiler! You're stupid if you don't think this is awesome!

You are right about this. Also, someone mathematically proved that's enough. And then someone else proved it empirically. There was an experiment where they trained 16 pigeons to detect cancerous or benign tumours from photographies. Individually, each pigeon had an average 85% accuracy. But all pigeons (except for one outlier) together had an accuracy of 99%. If you add enough silly brains, you get one super smart b…

Its also mathematically proven that infinite monkeys typing on typewriters for eternity will recreate all works of Shakespeare. It still takes someone with an actual brain to recognize the correct output.

Re: The Rise of Whatever

#159

Post by jeffhuys »

matejn wrote: post #142
BlindEyeHalo wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is practical when highlighting text and then pressing " once puts quotes and the start and the end of the highlighted region. But I agree that in normal input it is often annoying.

I hate that even more, especially since Visual Studio introducted it. I had the habit of selecting some text, and then typing to replace it. Now when my replacement starts with a parenthesis or quote, the text just gets surrounded instead! Maybe this is just an XKCD moment https://xkcd.com/1172/ ...

I think for the feature of wrapping, it is useful enough + just typing a->backspace->" is easy enough that I think it's a net win

Re: The Rise of Whatever

#160

Post by nostrebored »

AnonymousPlanet wrote: post #102
JW_00000 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But isn't that the same as saying: what about all the horse carrier drivers who lost their jobs due to cars? What about all the bank tellers we lost after inventing the automated teller machine?

Not exactly. It depends on how many professions get extinct at the same time. If you have ever lived in a place that is in an economic decline because professions have moved abroad and the new professions replacing the old ones just don't provide the scale or only benefit a few in society, you know where things might be headed.

What do you think happened in the rise of industrial agriculture?
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