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AI note takers are flooding Zoom calls as workers opt to skip meetings

washingtonpost.com

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Re: AI note takers are flooding Zoom calls as workers opt to skip meetings

#151

Post by Micanthus »

I completely understand sending a note taker to a bloated meeting where no participation is really expected of you anyways, but the anecdotes about AIs being sent to small meetings (even a 2 person interview the reporter scheduled for this very article!) in your stead is crazy.

Personally I don't mind a meeting that's either:

1) Informal, and short with up to 3ish close coworkers (as long as it doesn't start by someone sending the dreaded "hey, can you jump on a call?" message with no other context)

2) Published agenda well ahead of time, only relevant people are invited, some level of participation is required from all attendees, people are actually paying attention, and maybe most critically it's _well facilated_. Nothing more draining than meeting going off-topic and over-time because the facilitator doesn't feel comfortable telling that one guy to shut up.

Re: AI note takers are flooding Zoom calls as workers opt to skip meetings

#152

Post by [deleted] »

dyauspitr wrote: post #118
meroes wrote: post #65

The problem is these meetings are so low information density even an AI summary is not worth my time. And it’s not some elitist mindset. It’s like the entire reason there are these regular meetings is to make some mid level person feel better. They like giving directions vocally because that authority is harder to question than if they wrote up a memo and all the receivers can poke holes in it. I’m convinced most mee…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: AI note takers are flooding Zoom calls as workers opt to skip meetings

#153

Post by benhurmarcel »

dyauspitr wrote: post #118
meroes wrote: post #65

The problem is these meetings are so low information density even an AI summary is not worth my time. And it’s not some elitist mindset. It’s like the entire reason there are these regular meetings is to make some mid level person feel better. They like giving directions vocally because that authority is harder to question than if they wrote up a memo and all the receivers can poke holes in it. I’m convinced most mee…

[flagged]

> Issues that can be resolved in a three minute meeting

Why is every meeting 1h+ then?

Re: AI note takers are flooding Zoom calls as workers opt to skip meetings

#154

Post by Micanthus »

nlawalker wrote: post #69

In my experience, at least, it's because a lot of "meetings" aren't actually meetings, they're presentations that are actually better consumed async after the fact, but historical precedent demands that everyone be invited to attend the live taping and emote and cheer politely.

I would have agreed, but the reporter shares multiple anecdotes where that's not the case. Most crazily, the person she was meant to be interviewing sent an AI note taker in his place, very much not a presentation and she just sat alone with the AI until it became clear he was a no-show. I don't get the thought process there, just cancel the interview if you're not going to show up.

In general I think people need to be more comfortable both calling out useless meetings, and calling out people who are making meetings useless by not being engaged or "multi-tasking" (a.k.a. not paying attention). When I facilitate meetings if I see people aren't paying attention or it's very low engagement, I call it out and ask honestly if people think the meeting is worth their time. The first time people hear that they think I'm just being passive-aggressive, but colleagues who know me well know they can be honest and if the meeting isn't valuable we can stop and in the future we'll either have a better agenda/facilitation, do it async, or not do it at all. Even if the meeting would have value if people were engaged, if I fail to get people's attention then it becomes useless and I would rather not waste my or anyone else's time.

Re: AI note takers are flooding Zoom calls as workers opt to skip meetings

#155

Post by bravetraveler »

dyauspitr wrote: post #118
meroes wrote: post #65

The problem is these meetings are so low information density even an AI summary is not worth my time. And it’s not some elitist mindset. It’s like the entire reason there are these regular meetings is to make some mid level person feel better. They like giving directions vocally because that authority is harder to question than if they wrote up a memo and all the receivers can poke holes in it. I’m convinced most mee…

[flagged]

I'm of the opinion that those who want "it" now are short-sighted and impulsive.

I'm inclined to believe you're closer to management than actual execution: when you say "resolved" I hear "owned".

Re: AI note takers are flooding Zoom calls as workers opt to skip meetings

#156

Post by dgb23 »

jedberg wrote: post #95
meroes wrote: post #65

The problem is these meetings are so low information density even an AI summary is not worth my time. And it’s not some elitist mindset. It’s like the entire reason there are these regular meetings is to make some mid level person feel better. They like giving directions vocally because that authority is harder to question than if they wrote up a memo and all the receivers can poke holes in it. I’m convinced most mee…

> I’m convinced most meetings are to make up for poor writing skills. That's not entirely it. Some people just won't say something unless put in a setting where they are explicity asked for it. I've had meetings where I ask for a status, and someone says they are stuck on X, and they've been stuck on X for two days. And I'll ask why they didn't just ask for help. They weren't comfortable asking for help. They were on…

But you can share your daily status asynchronously as well.

This might not scale well to larger teams, but we simply write a short message in a dedicated channel each day. It contains a short status and a few bullet points to plan the next day.

Slack makes this conventient because you can write a top level message and then use the reply feature to add more details.

Re: AI note takers are flooding Zoom calls as workers opt to skip meetings

#157

Post by nottorp »

Spivak wrote: post #81
nlawalker wrote: post #69

In my experience, at least, it's because a lot of "meetings" aren't actually meetings, they're presentations that are actually better consumed async after the fact, but historical precedent demands that everyone be invited to attend the live taping and emote and cheer politely.

As well as those standups which are just micro-presentations where each person talks in turn about their respective card but there's no discussion. The teams that moved to async standups where they just post status updates in Slack and amigo only when needed seem happier.

The worst part about the standup ritual is that no one talks outside standups.

With async text communication channels you'll post when an issue shows up. With the standups you'll wait until the next standup and maybe forget the details until then, or forget about the issue entirely and that will lead to technical debt.

> when an issue shows up

Advanced usage: post proactively before you reach the task/issue. This way people have time to comment on it and when you do get to it it's been clear what to do for 1-2 days.

Re: AI note takers are flooding Zoom calls as workers opt to skip meetings

#159

Post by rightbyte »

coliveira wrote: post #104
xyzzy123 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's this huge difference in quality between execs who work in writing and execs who NEVER write _anything_ down, which is surprisingly common. In my experience it correlates closely with toxic behaviour and I don't know why it's common for senior management in many orgs to allow people to operate in this style.

Most modern companies drift toward the non-written style (effectively managing by the seat of the pants) because it has the appearance of being more effective, even when it is in fact the opposite. Business myth makes the guy who is always having meetings to appear more dynamic and effective, and is consequently rewarded by upper management.

Ye there are multiple such fallacies. E.g. making brittle systems and later save the day makes you seem competent and important.

Also the opposite effect, where the most productive and important engineers seem to cause most problems and seem incompetent.

Re: AI note takers are flooding Zoom calls as workers opt to skip meetings

#160

Post by PeterStuer »

meroes wrote: post #65

The problem is these meetings are so low information density even an AI summary is not worth my time. And it’s not some elitist mindset. It’s like the entire reason there are these regular meetings is to make some mid level person feel better. They like giving directions vocally because that authority is harder to question than if they wrote up a memo and all the receivers can poke holes in it. I’m convinced most mee…

They are "low information density" because that is not the point of the meeting.

Meetings are first and foremost about relationship management. You do not get to management and certainly not climb the management hierarchy if you do not at least implicitly feel this.

The actual meeting topic, while it can be relevant, is secondary. You establish and reinforce the pecking order, sense allegiance and subversion, or, feel out potential for reinforcing bonds or mitigating fallouts.

This is why people focussed on 'doing the actual work' hate meetings, while carreer focussed people love them.

Now I have exaggerated all the above, but only to make the point more clear. As always it is not black and white.

And sometimes, it is worse. There are realy situations with managers that schedule meetings and calls because they are simply bored at work. These are the types that when the step into the car to go to a meeting, will always have to get on the phone with some rapportee to have a quick 'update' that might just last the lenght of the drive.

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