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Entry-level jobs down by a third since launch of ChatGPT

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Re: Entry-level jobs down by a third since launch of ChatGPT

#151

Post by bgwalter »

InkCanon wrote: post #124

These jobs are being offshored to India. You can tell by how they're massively hiring there. Google launches largest office in India https://www.entrepreneur.com/en-in/news-and-trends/google-la... Microsoft India head says no layoffs in India https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/technology/tech-news/mic...

This must be the "America first!" policy we keep hearing about. It is also strange that no one mentions losing the CS race to India (compare with the fake "losing the AI race to China" argument).

So, the Indian CEOs of Google and Microsoft perform their duty and turn the companies into boring has-been companies like IBM.

Re: Entry-level jobs down by a third since launch of ChatGPT

#152

Post by ProllyInfamous »

InkCanon wrote: post #124

These jobs are being offshored to India. You can tell by how they're massively hiring there. Google launches largest office in India https://www.entrepreneur.com/en-in/news-and-trends/google-la... Microsoft India head says no layoffs in India https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/technology/tech-news/mic...

Onshored, too.

My mid-sized US city (Chattanooga) has an MSA of And yet the complaint/advice I hear most from local techies is to "WFH at a national company if you want to actually make any money, here. Or move elsewhere." Or some other iteration of "there aren't enough IT jobs here."

I'm a blue collar tradesman, so WFH isn't really practical; but I'd definitely have to move elsewhere if I were in tech and didn't want to WFH.

[0] https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=&job=&city=chattanooga&yea...

Re: Entry-level jobs down by a third since launch of ChatGPT

#153

Post by bgwalter »

spongebobstoes wrote: post #150
nomnomaster wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worked with Indians. Extremely aggressive, yet capable enough and organized. Not surprised. With ChatGPT making hiring in the US far more expensive yet inadequate enough to make hiring Indians a necessity. Just know your security both online and offline if you have to work with them in your ranks. They won't stop with just eating your lunch.

There is little substance to this comment other than stereotypes about India. I don't like this kind of generalization -- there are over a billion Indians, let's not lump them all together in a caricature

I haven't seen the aggressiveness, but I have seen Indian CTOs move into functioning companies without having any provable accomplishments or ideas. So I assume their real role is to replace the native hires with overseas contractors.

Re: Entry-level jobs down by a third since launch of ChatGPT

#154

Post by ninetyninenine »

Barrin92 wrote: post #95
ninetyninenine wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment also lacks analysis. This is an observational study there is no way to pinpoint causation. Yeah it can correlate with the end of a post pandemic hiring boom, and it can correlate with the bank rate. But no matter what it also correlates with the rise of AI. All are true and causation cannot be established for any of the 3 through just an observational study.

>This is an observational study there is no way to pinpoint causation. Given that AI tools are only really used for white collar work, but white collar professions have not been declining faster than entry level jobs in hospitality, vocational jobs, nursing or transportation (all of which are down), this gives you a pretty decent natural control group. The whole debate about bifurcation of the labour market, that ent…

This is somewhat true but it may not be the full story.

We don’t know if 2 causal events will stack. It may be that one causal event does so much damage that the second causal event can’t do much.

It’s like firing a bullet and throwing a stone at a window. Whichever came first will mask the causative nature of the second. The window can't break twice.

Re: Entry-level jobs down by a third since launch of ChatGPT

#155

Post by InkCanon »

ProllyInfamous wrote: post #152
InkCanon wrote: post #124

These jobs are being offshored to India. You can tell by how they're massively hiring there. Google launches largest office in India https://www.entrepreneur.com/en-in/news-and-trends/google-la... Microsoft India head says no layoffs in India https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/technology/tech-news/mic...

Onshored, too. My mid-sized US city (Chattanooga) has an MSA of And yet the complaint/advice I hear most from local techies is to "WFH at a national company if you want to actually make any money, here. Or move elsewhere." Or some other iteration of "there aren't enough IT jobs here." I'm a blue collar tradesman, so WFH isn't really practical; but I'd definitely have to move elsewhere if I were in tech and didn't wan…

This, there's also another kind of "shoring" where people are imported and given salaries at the bare minimum to qualify for H1B. As per my other post, the net amount is staggering and no where near the supposed 65k cap. My own right estimates put it at ~600k annually.

Re: Entry-level jobs down by a third since launch of ChatGPT

#156

Post by ProllyInfamous »

spongebobstoes wrote: post #150
nomnomaster wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worked with Indians. Extremely aggressive, yet capable enough and organized. Not surprised. With ChatGPT making hiring in the US far more expensive yet inadequate enough to make hiring Indians a necessity. Just know your security both online and offline if you have to work with them in your ranks. They won't stop with just eating your lunch.

There is little substance to this comment other than stereotypes about India. I don't like this kind of generalization -- there are over a billion Indians, let's not lump them all together in a caricature

I think it was a fair characterization, if only because employers know that H1-B visaholders are desperate to not be deported (i.e. must maintain employment/sponsorship).

Wages are kept suppressed, keeping people (citizens and not) desperate.

The people that have (e.g.) immigrated into America, but not naturalized yet, are in extremely perilous positions, beholden to a corporate entity which would rather employ them (for wayyyyy less salary) than cater to free-er citizens.

¢¢

Re: Entry-level jobs down by a third since launch of ChatGPT

#159

Post by rightlane »

This maps perfectly with what I'm seeing in the consulting space. Clients are asking exclusively for very senior developers. The expectation is that a senior developer will use AI and replace the junior devs.

The game has become how quickly can we train someone up so that the client will accept them as a "senior"

Re: Entry-level jobs down by a third since launch of ChatGPT

#160

Post by RestlessMind »

InkCanon wrote: post #124

These jobs are being offshored to India. You can tell by how they're massively hiring there. Google launches largest office in India https://www.entrepreneur.com/en-in/news-and-trends/google-la... Microsoft India head says no layoffs in India https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/technology/tech-news/mic...

> These jobs are being offshored to India.

That was inevitable the moment remote work caught on. Software engineers in rich countries were stupidly short-sighted to cheer on the remote work. If your work can be done from anywhere in the US, it can be done from anywhere in the world.

If you think timezones or knowledge of English will save you, Canada has much lower wages for SWEs and central/south America has enough SWEs with good English skills. They are also paid one third or one fourth of what SFBA jobs used to pay. No wonder all the new headcount I have seen since 2022 is abroad.

Remote work, high interest rates and (excuse of) AI coding agents has been the perfect storm which has screwed junior SWEs in the US.

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