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Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

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Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#151

Post by twodave »

jxjnskkzxxhx wrote: post #90

The US has a history of pulling this kind of stuff on its allies. To mind comes pulling out of Breton Woods. To those not aware, at some point in the past the US told the world: the dollar is as good as gold, you can convert it at any time you want, pinky promise. Later: lol joking, I'm keeping the gold, enjoy your dollars. I wonder what it says about Europe that its leaders are still falling for these rugpulls. That…

This is a little skewed based on my understanding. What actually happened to precipitate this was some European countries intentionally attempting to destabilize the dollar, gold having been pegged to a specific dollar amount. Obviously (to me, at least) such an action, threatening a country’s solvency, can’t just be allowed to go on, especially from the position of strength the US had in 1944 (literally a physical presence in 100% of the developed world’s ports at the time).

And let’s not forget that part of the deal was that the US would guarantee maritime security, which they have fulfilled for nearly 100 years. I would say that’s worth quite a bit more than whatever gold is in dispute, given that it allowed for the rise of globalization in the first place.

What really caused the end of the BW financial system was the inability of a world economy to be backed by gold in the first place. This coincided with the US leaving the gold standard in 1971, and this was only ~5-10 years after the instability began. So the system still enjoyed 15-20 years of operating as intended.

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#152

Post by fakedang »

jxjnskkzxxhx wrote: post #90

The US has a history of pulling this kind of stuff on its allies. To mind comes pulling out of Breton Woods. To those not aware, at some point in the past the US told the world: the dollar is as good as gold, you can convert it at any time you want, pinky promise. Later: lol joking, I'm keeping the gold, enjoy your dollars. I wonder what it says about Europe that its leaders are still falling for these rugpulls. That…

> I wonder what it says about Europe that its leaders are still falling for these rugpulls. That they are uneducated is the most generous reading I can think of.

Stupid Atlanticists

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#153

Post by seydor »

jxjnskkzxxhx wrote: post #127
scrlk wrote: post #118

The TradFi version of "not your keys, not your crypto".

Damn. I despise crypto, but even I have to admit that there's some power behind this comment. Not because crypto isn't shit, which it is, but because letting someone else hold your gold is stupid. As stupid as letting someone else have your crypto keys. Bravo.

most people dont even have crypto keys, they have a wallet in an exchange

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#155

Post by nlitened »

jxjnskkzxxhx wrote: post #127
scrlk wrote: post #118

The TradFi version of "not your keys, not your crypto".

Damn. I despise crypto, but even I have to admit that there's some power behind this comment. Not because crypto isn't shit, which it is, but because letting someone else hold your gold is stupid. As stupid as letting someone else have your crypto keys. Bravo.

I think government officials holding gold is also “letting someone else have your crypto keys”. What matter does it make if it’s “your” government officials or “someone else’s”

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#156

Post by cempaka »

fanwood wrote: post #99
SuperShibe wrote: post #87

The Germans in this article all appear to be aligned to either BSW (populist far-left, pro-Russia, anti-US) or AfD (populist far-right, pro-Russia). BSW wasn't even elected into the parliament and AfD, while being part of the parliament, has virtually no power due to not being part of the government coalition and all other parties sharing an informal agreement to not pass legislations with the help of AfD. What I'm t…

It's still a very good idea given the US instability and complete lack of trust in this administration

It's not just this administration, it's been essentially open season for fraud in the U.S. financial system ever since 2008. If you're a hoi polloi dentist who makes $100,000 trading options off of some insider info then yes, there are SEC cops on the beat who will come after you. Otherwise, you can pretty much do whatever you want until & unless a whole lot of people lose money, at which point it's too late.

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#157

Post by throw0101b »

SuperShibe wrote: post #87

The Germans in this article all appear to be aligned to either BSW (populist far-left, pro-Russia, anti-US) or AfD (populist far-right, pro-Russia). BSW wasn't even elected into the parliament and AfD, while being part of the parliament, has virtually no power due to not being part of the government coalition and all other parties sharing an informal agreement to not pass legislations with the help of AfD. What I'm t…

> […] * BSW (populist far-left, pro-Russia, anti-US) or AfD (populist far-right, pro-Russia).*

An example of:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory

?

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#158

Post by resource_waste »

Havoc wrote: post #136

Honestly at this stage all countries should pull their gold. The system was somewhat reasonable when the US acted more or less benevolent, but clearly when we're in a space where the US threatens to invade allies then they clearly are no longer trustworthy

As someone deep into International Relations, I always find it a bit interesting to hear when someone says 'X nation is untrustworthy'. I mostly find it interesting because it means some event disrupted norms to a level that The Commons is aware. Everyone in IR knows trust/morals is not something to put weight into, but 'normies' are always surprised whenever there is a chance in IR that contradicts international law or norms.

It will surprise most Americans to realize the world is not governed by Liberalism/Institutions, despite the veil presented. However, at the highest level the world is managed by the principles of IR Realism.

'Trust' is subordinate to national interests, the purpose of trust is small, only enough to make deals. However, even then, deals are always backed by verification methods and checked consistently.

None of this is unique to the US, The West, or this century.

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#160

Post by belorn »

niffydroid wrote: post #22
roenxi wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US might literally just not give it to them. Germany has been trying to ask for their gold back for a while IIRC and they generally get an explanation that paraphrases to it being a very complex operation to pull off and they should come back next year. The US has enough leverage over Germany that the Nord Stream incident is still an unsolved mystery where everyone just moved on. Probably the Russians did it. Tha…

I thought this has been attributed to pro russian Ukrainians on the far right?

There are two boats that are under primary suspicion. One Russian salvage ship named SS-750 that carries a mini-submarine, which circled around for no apparent reason in the vicinity of the explosion area 4 days before the explosion. Then there is another boat, a 50-foot (15.4m) sailing yacht named Andromeda, was reportedly near the site of two of the three explosions in the days before they occurred. Traces of military explosives were found on Andromeda.

The Andromeda ship was operated by an Ukrainian national, and rented by a company from Uzbekistan, the owner of which holds a Russian and a Ukrainian passport which resident is located in the annexed Crimea.

In addition there are around 5 more ships that have been in the area.

There have been and still are multiple investigations. Sweden and Denmark dropped the cases citing lack of jurisdiction/basis to continue investigation. Germany issued an arrest warrant toward suspected operators of the Andromeda ship.

There was an alleged leaked Dutch intelligence report that implicated Ukrainians that was given to the The Washington Post, but military analysts from Sweden and Denmark has expressed strong doubts of the practicality of an 15.4-metre sailing boat to do a 80 meter technical dive using a crew of 6 to plant that much explosives (over 500kg) and at 3 different sites. As such they has described the Andromeda theory as a distraction and false flag.

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