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Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

nytimes.com

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Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#151

Post by ptero »

vidarh wrote: post #123
ptero wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In the wrong" is often jurisdiction specific. I do not want otherwise reasonable candidates to avoid the ballot because of the risk of being convicted by some external court.

If they're planning to do something that might get them indicted for crimes against humanity, then they are not reasonable candidates.

Unfortunately, there are enough courts that are very willing to slap any label on any suitably vilified candidate. Pick any president of India; you can probably find a Pakistani court would be willing to convict for "crimes against humanity". And vice versa. Or pick some Iraq-Iran pairings. Or Armenian- Azerbaijani, etc.

Allowing external courts to judge presidents is a bad idea. It is a slippery slope even for cases that seem obvious. My 2c.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#152

Post by ryandrake »

zombiwoof wrote: post #113
Aliabid94 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US continues to burn its soft power capital to defend Israel - this guy was only targeted because of his investigations on Israeli war crimes.

[flagged]

Let's not overlook that Israel has bought all previous US presidents back to its founding, and more than enough Congresscritters. We have been treating Israel as if it were the 51st state, including unconditionally funding and defending it.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#153

Post by JimBlackwood »

SllX wrote: post #107
jeremyjh wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds...appropriate? I would have no issues with every living former US President being accountable for their crimes, and I expect they would all be convicted.

It’s not appropriate for an international court that we’re not even a part of to put our Presidents and their subordinates on trial, nor is it something we should meekly concede to.

It is however appropriate for a group of nations to agree that a person who has committed crimes (according to them) is to be arrested upon entering one of their nations.

It’s not really something you can or cannot concede to, unless you are of the opinion America is the only sovereign state in the world.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#154

Post by aniviacat »

mschuster91 wrote: post #137
pjc50 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On what evidence?

Look what it investigated and what it did not, there is your evidence. No Jews No News.

Looking through the list of indictments, there doesn't seem to be any apparent focus on jews or israelis.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_indicted_in_t...

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#155

Post by 369548684892826 »

SllX wrote: post #132
369548684892826 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? Someone has to do it.

We have the Uniform Code of Military Justice for military personnel, and on paper, a Congress to hold the President accountable, although that obviously needs to be beefed up because the results lately have been unsatisfactory. It does not need to be the ICC, nor should we allow it.

I don't understand what you mean by "allow it". The ICC are free to do what they like, and the US are free to ignore it (outside any sanctions the international community impose).

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#156

Post by SllX »

JimBlackwood wrote: post #153
SllX wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not appropriate for an international court that we’re not even a part of to put our Presidents and their subordinates on trial, nor is it something we should meekly concede to.

It is however appropriate for a group of nations to agree that a person who has committed crimes (according to them) is to be arrested upon entering one of their nations. It’s not really something you can or cannot concede to, unless you are of the opinion America is the only sovereign state in the world.

Sure, but we’re going to interpret the arrest of a sitting or former POTUS, their direct subordinates or military personnel for the purposes of trying them in the ICC as a political act, not an act to maintain law and order in their home countries and its going to be much easier for us to justify invading and evacuating those people.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#157

Post by throw310822 »

krapp wrote: post #145
Atlas667 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What "Epstein/Israel/Trump blackmail conspiracy?" It's already known that Trump is in the Epstein files. He's already admitted to sexual assault, has been found liable of sexual abuse and is a convicted felon. He's one of the most openly venal and corrupt Presidents in history. There's literally nothing Israel could have on him that would surprise anyone. Every American President will defend Israel at any cost. The A…

Correct, but let's not forget that at the end of all this complicated mess it's Israel that reaps the benefits (money, territory, its enemies reduced to rubble). It's hardly by chance.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#158

Post by SllX »

369548684892826 wrote: post #155
SllX wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have the Uniform Code of Military Justice for military personnel, and on paper, a Congress to hold the President accountable, although that obviously needs to be beefed up because the results lately have been unsatisfactory. It does not need to be the ICC, nor should we allow it.

I don't understand what you mean by "allow it". The ICC are free to do what they like, and the US are free to ignore it (outside any sanctions the international community impose).

The US electing to ignore the ICC’s activities with regards to ourselves or our allies is functionally the same actively allowing their activities.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#159

Post by jeremyjh »

SllX wrote: post #140
jeremyjh wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was Germany a part of any such treaty? Or was it inappropriate for those Nazis to be held accountable for their crimes?

Germany also lost the war. Their highest ranking officials and military were not in a position to prevent it; moreover I’m pretty okay with having applied the winner’s justice over Nazi Germany. Put us in the position where we can’t say “no” before you apply your own justice, but we’re still going to do everything in our power to defend ourselves.

What does that have to do with what is appropriate?

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#160

Post by spwa4 »

lurk2 wrote: post #149
spwa4 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at the history of the ICC, what makes you think they hold people accountable for human rights violations? Never mind effectively. The ICC is a cool idea in theory. The implementation pretty much causes human rights violations.

> The implementation pretty much causes human rights violations. How is that?

For example: selective enforcement, for example states vs terrorists. Even Russia became a victim of that, which I'll point out in hopes of avoiding discussion on Israel.

Russia, of course commits human rights abuses in Ukraine. But Daesh committed serious human rights abuses against Russia [1] [2], as did a number of other islamist, nationalist and even a socialist group. Not one iota of attention of the court ever went to that.

But this is a general problem. The court undertakes action against states, especially if they are currently unpopular in the UN (who appoints the judges), but never against the many groups that commit large scale human rights abuses against those states.

A third problem is that ICC convictions are entirely optional if you're in power. Any government is allowed to ask the ICC to not sue anyone for things either they did, or that happened on their soil. Sorry, any government EXCEPT the US and Israel are allowed to ask that. The ICC changed it's own statutes TWICE last year to sue Israel, and has done so before against the US. A relevant question would be "is the ICC allowed to change it's own statutes?" ... and of course the answer is no.

Or you could point out less serious, but ubiquitous human rights abuses that the ICC won't touch for various reasons. For example, every last muslim-majority state violates freedom of religion, a human right. Even Morocco and Turkey do [3] [4]. You will not hear the ICC on this issue.

Or to focus on a different problem, there's constant human rights abuses essentially everywhere on the planet in the prison system, including juvenile justice systems and just general youth services. This happens everywhere, with famous incidents in Romania, the US, France, Australia, ... you will not hear the ICC on this.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocus_City_Hall_attack [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_siege [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Morocco [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Turkey#...

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