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Framework Laptop 12 review

arstechnica.com

151–160 of 398 posts

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#151

> A good laptop, but not a good value One of my mentors had the great sentence: "I dont buy laptops- they suck, because they are tailored to transport. I buy desktops- and connect them via internet to flat transportable terminals. And desktops can be upgraded, merged, reused and send to the closet as server at the EOL-" And he was kind of right. For almost all purposes, even for gaming in a way- a remote desktop is k…

Nah, it’s ok for browsing the internet and for „slow“ games but for anything else it sucks

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#152

> A good laptop, but not a good value One of my mentors had the great sentence: "I dont buy laptops- they suck, because they are tailored to transport. I buy desktops- and connect them via internet to flat transportable terminals. And desktops can be upgraded, merged, reused and send to the closet as server at the EOL-" And he was kind of right. For almost all purposes, even for gaming in a way- a remote desktop is k…

One could argue, that the "reusability" of the laptopbricks, in a desktop-server blade like structure is the biggest argument for the framework as a laptop though.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#153

> A good laptop, but not a good value Where "value" is purely monetary, I think that pretty succinctly sums up my experience/views on the Framework product line. They make good laptops, but you can generally get more for fewer dollars. If you're shopping on price, you can probably just skip right over their entire product line. That doesn't mean that their offering doesn't have value. It has value has a vote with you…

I am happy to pay more money given the companies goals, and that extra money is an investment to me. If I didnt buy it they have one less sale, and I won't have contributed to making the world have more companies like framework. I have hope others are doing the same despite them not being the cheapest.

If they stop delivering, ill not buy their next thing, and ill be sad.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean which Intel or AMD cpu can be run fanless and perform well? I don't follow CPU news and have no idea what lake they're at now, but I'd be surprised if Intel and AMD didn't have a chip competitive with an M1 by now. When I google "fanless amd intel laptop cpu" I find this old thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31142209 which does suggest some fanless machines exist. That's from 3 years ago so surely…

To put it simply, I don't think we'll get anything closer to the M1 on the x86 architecture. You'll have to wait for Framework to offer a Snapdragon instead of Intel/AMD but they haven't announced anything yet.

The first-generation Intel Ultra lineup is comparable to the M1 and M1 Max. See: https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/intel-core-ultra-7-165...

Intel's integrated graphics aren't as good, but they are similar in terms of power consumption & CPU performance.

Compared to M4, well, that's a different beast entirely. I'm not sure what's the latest there.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#155

> A good laptop, but not a good value One of my mentors had the great sentence: "I dont buy laptops- they suck, because they are tailored to transport. I buy desktops- and connect them via internet to flat transportable terminals. And desktops can be upgraded, merged, reused and send to the closet as server at the EOL-" And he was kind of right. For almost all purposes, even for gaming in a way- a remote desktop is k…

I am of the same mind. Desktop for heavy lifting and a mid-range Chromebook (technically a chrultrabook now) for browsing w/ a lightweight yet modern feel.

I do think the plunge to leveraging a desktop/server across devices does require an understanding of ssh/rdp and tailscale/reverse proxies though, which is why it isn't as popular as it could be.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#156

I love the Galvatron color scheme! Feels techy yet nostalgic.

I was thinking BW2 Galvatron too — looks great.

After reading everyone's comments about price I expected it would be much worse. I might consider it after my current laptop dies.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#157
post #148

> A good laptop, but not a good value Where "value" is purely monetary, I think that pretty succinctly sums up my experience/views on the Framework product line. They make good laptops, but you can generally get more for fewer dollars. If you're shopping on price, you can probably just skip right over their entire product line. That doesn't mean that their offering doesn't have value. It has value has a vote with you…

I think the repairabilty makes it hard to even compare monetary value, since in theory, you'd be keeping the same body, while swapping out the mainboard. Is it cheaper to buy two other laptops compared to one laptop + mainboard? That's what, a 3-5 year timeline? Who knows what prices/capabilities/etc will be like then.

Yeah, I personally take that into account however I can see why someone may not.

Framework has released fairly consistent upgrades for the Framework 13, but there's no guarantee that they will continue to do so, will release upgrades for the Framework 16, etc.

I think in a few years when they've been in business for closer to a decade than not and released updates across the whole product line, it'd be pretty hard for anyone to make an argument that that _shouldn't_ be factored in.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#158
post #2

Is there a single person in the world that LIKES the half-height up/down keys?

I can't tell you how much I need TKL. I'm so tired of seeing numpads and not navigation keys. Literally all day long I'm using shift-home, ctl-shift-end, ctl-arrow, ctl-shift-arrow, pretty much any combination. I need these keys.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#159
I'd be a lot more into Framework if they had come out with a single other GPU option than the Radeon 7700S that's been the only GPU option available since the brands launch. The 7800M and 7900M have both been out over a year or more, and Framework has made zero mention of when or even if those models would ever be available as upgrades for Framework devices. I don't even really play games, but for my video editing workloads, more GPU cores and VRAM make a world of difference, and the RTX 3070 level of performance out of the RX7700s that's thus far the only GPU option for Framework devices just doesn't cut it. There's just no way I'm spending $2500+ USD for a laptop that has worse performance than devices costing half as much at this point.

They just aren't really delivering on the promise of "Future upgradeability" in any kind of meaningful way so far, and I just can't see the value in purchasing what's undeniably a wildly overpriced machine based on promises that have yet to be delivered upon. They've had plenty of time to communicate when, or even if, new GPUs are coming, yet there's been absolute radio silence from the on this front.

Personally I think they need to focus more on actually delivering on the fundamental promise of the brand, that being future upgradeability, than on releasing new devices, as until they can demonstrate they are committed to delivering on their promises, I won't be buying any of their devices.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But are you really going to repair it? Or, upon spilling the juice, realize you can get a Surface Go on sale at Walmart (which this seems to be a clone of) for a bit more than a replacement keyboard and your time (which is way more than a minute) and toss it in the trash anyway.

It really doesn't seem like you're trying to engage constructively here. Framework sells keyboards for the Framework 13 for ~$30. I can find a Surface Go on sale for as low as $500. No, I don't think anyone's going to throw out a $500-$1000 device because it needs a $30 part and maybe 15 minutes of work (steps here: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Framework+Laptop+12+Input+Cover... ) and they could instead replace their…

> It really doesn't seem like you're trying to engage constructively here.

So I'm not allowed to disagree? For the record: I think the Framework laptop, while a noble cause, is a foolish endeavor as executed and they will be out of business in 5 years.

I'm assuming you've stocked spare parts because by the time you need a new keyboard, there is a chance they will be out of production (or out of business) and those parts, now rare, will be fetching $100s on eBay.

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