Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#151

Post by nitrogen » Sat, Aug 25, 2012, 12:21 AM UTC

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #122

mladenkovacevic wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big loser here though might be America. Mobile hardware companies like ZTE or Huawei who are probably growing at the fastest pace right now are just going to deem the American market too risky to be made a priority and focus on Asian & European markets.

Apple will have no problem following them into European courts. I'm sure Asia is the same, assuming they feel they can get a fair shake there. Many of the types of patents they are suing for are international in nature.

Different courts have come to different conclusions about the same companies. In the UK, Apple had to say Samsung didn't copy them. In other European countries, Samsung's products had to be changed to avoid a permanent ban. In Korea, Apple and Samsung managed to ban some of each others' products.

In other words, these lawsuits demonstrate international inconsistencies in patent laws, courts, and markets, and will only serve to fragment the international market and make developing a smartphone riskier and less predictable. Who loses? Consumers and smaller hardware and software companies.

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#152

Post by nitrogen » Sat, Aug 25, 2012, 12:24 AM UTC

taligent wrote: post #60

shawnee_ wrote: post #53

If Lucy Koh is so intent on protecting the singularity of one corporate interest over what is so obviously good for the general public, she should not be a Federal District Judge. She should still be in private practice. We need Federal District Judges who are willing to work for the good of consumers, which involves protecting a market where competition can thrive. Consumers benefit when there is more than one separ…

Looking forward to plenty of truly dumb, ignorant comments like this in the future. You do know that a jury made this decision, right ?

I don't care how strongly you disagree, ad homs like "dumb" and "ignorant" have no place on a civil discussion forum. Please stop being so inflammatory.

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#153

Post by mladenkovacevic » Sat, Aug 25, 2012, 12:25 AM UTC

bane wrote: post #76

danmaz74 wrote: post #22

Double tap to zoom, now, that's real innovation!

Apple is now officially "innovating" in the same way Microsoft was "innovating" in the 90s...which is to say almost not at all.

Which makes me wonder.. does anyone currently hold or has, at any point in the history of personal computers, held a patent for a double-click of the mouse to activate or execute programs? The double tap to zoom seems very analogous to that.

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#154

Post by lightyrs » Sat, Aug 25, 2012, 12:27 AM UTC

brg wrote: post #46

lubos wrote: post #4

I was shocked to learn this case is basically being decided by people who have no idea what they are really deciding on. Here is the jury according to techcrunch 1. An electrical engineer 2. A homemaker 3. A construction worker 4. A young unemployed man who likes video games 5. An insurance agent 6. An ex-Navy avionics technician 7. A store operations manager for a cycling retailer 8. A project manager for wireless c…

You seem to vastly underestimate the intelligence of the average person, and you fail to realize how serious people take jury duty once they have been picked. It is important to realize that a jury trial is a seminar for the jury. It is given by two opposing sides to a disinterested party tasked to make a decision. If either side fails to inform the jury of the enormity or ramifications of their decision, it is the f…

This

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#155

Post by josephlord » Sat, Aug 25, 2012, 12:27 AM UTC

programminggeek wrote: post #10

This is both unsurprising and somewhat meaningless as there will be an appeals process that will last for months and possibly years. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that Samsung made their products to look like Apple products. They changed their icon styles and other UI elements away from Android standards to match the Apple style. Some of the things Apple invented and patented on like pinch to zoom an…

If Samsung get away without an injunction (decided by the judge I think) then just paying and ending the issue and embarrassing press may be the wise course.

It is only a billion dollars which Samsung can definitely afford. It could be seen as a cost of business and particularly the cost of becoming the number 2 smartphone manufacturer in the world and the only one really able to put products at the same price as Apples and still sell large quantities.

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#156

Post by cremnob » Sat, Aug 25, 2012, 12:28 AM UTC

shawnee_ wrote: post #53

If Lucy Koh is so intent on protecting the singularity of one corporate interest over what is so obviously good for the general public, she should not be a Federal District Judge. She should still be in private practice. We need Federal District Judges who are willing to work for the good of consumers, which involves protecting a market where competition can thrive. Consumers benefit when there is more than one separ…

Your comment about Lucy Koh is completely out of line. If you are going to attack her integrity back it up with some evidence.

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#157

Post by pooriaazimi » Sat, Aug 25, 2012, 12:28 AM UTC

magicalist wrote: post #138

kapnobatairza wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is fair to say that Samsung may have crossed some lines as far as "trade dress" goes. But did Apple really invent pinch to zoom? Jeff Han demonstrated pinch to zoom gestures at TED in 2006, Microsoft Surface in 2007 before the iPhone was released, and I've seen various forms of "pinch to zoom" on different tablets and smart board applications. I think that Apple did a good job developing some multi-touch i…

Does anyone know why Jeff Han's work was not emphasized more as prior art? (there was also more at the time, but I can't recall specifics now). > If we had patents on desktop GUI user input standards like right click, ctrl key modifiers like ctrl-scroll to zoom, etc. then using computers would be a much bigger PITA. This is the key right here. I don't think everyone fully understands what is happening around these UI…

Jeff Han demoed it in late 2006, merely months before iPhone introduction. Apple started working on iPhone (and multitouch screens) in the early 00s and (I'm recalling from memory) they filed their multitouch patent in 2004 or 2005.

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#158

Post by chairsofter » Sat, Aug 25, 2012, 12:28 AM UTC

kooshball wrote: post #86

How does the verdict affect Samsung's ability to sell additional phones in the future?

"Import ban and threat of further litigation, what's that???"

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#159

Post by nitrogen » Sat, Aug 25, 2012, 12:29 AM UTC

taligent wrote: post #79

Symmetry wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better than that, I think, would be legislators looking out for the good of consumers and judges interpreting the law impartially.

How did Koh not interpret the law impartially ? The fact is that the Samsung lawyers failed to convince an independent jury of the general public. Koh had very little to do with it.

Koh had very little to do with it.

Apart from approving or rejecting every piece of evidence and testimony the jury would receive, which power could easily be used to create a reality distortion field around the jury... I'm not actually accusing Koh, just noting that juries are shown a very carefully constructed picture that is largely controlled by the judge, and may or may not resemble reality.

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#160

Post by mahyarm » Sat, Aug 25, 2012, 12:30 AM UTC

veemjeem wrote: post #139

Steko wrote: post #98

This is a good result. Samsung copies for a living like many companies. Much of the copying is legal. Sometimes they push it too far. One smoking gun in this case was the Google told Samsung to change their designs. They didn't. They reaped the benefits in terms of higher sales and now they can reap the bad side of that too. On net it has still been profitable from Samsung. Samsung lost but it hasn't been shut down o…

I don't understand the mindset of companies in the eastern hemisphere. I feel like the majority of companies in china / korea thrive by copying other successful company products to survive. It's more blatant in china, but it still happens in korea / japan. I feel like there must be some underlying cultural thing that promotes this kind of behavior -- nobody feels like they're doing the wrong thing.

It's the same reason why entertainment execs like sequels vs original works. Higher chance of a good profit.