AI critics always have to make strawmen arguments about how there has to be a human in the loop to "fix" things when that's never been the argument AI proponents ever make (at least those who deal with it day to day). This will only get better with time. AI can frequently one-shot throwaway scripts that I need get things done. For actual features I typically start and have it go thru the initial slog and then finish…
The one thing about concocting throwaway scripts yourself is the increased familiarity with the tooling you use. And you're not actually throwing away those scripts. I have random scripts laying around my file system (and my shell history) to check how I did a task in the past.
Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts
151–160 of 552 posts
Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts
#152On the one hand, I would expect LLMs to be able to crank out such code when prompted by skilled engineers who also understand prompting these tools correctly. OAuth isn’t new, has tons of working examples to steal as training data from public projects, and in a variety of existing languages to suit most use cases or needs. On the other hand, where I remain a skeptic is this constant banging-on that somehow this will…
In my opinion, there is a very valid argument that the vast majority of things that are patented are not "new" things, because everything builds on something else that came before it.
The things that are seen as "new" are not infrequently something where someone in field A sees something in field B, ponders it for a minute, and goes "hey, if we take that idea from field B, twist it clockwise a bit, and bolt it onto the other thing we already use, it would make our lives easier over in this nasty corner of field A." Congratulations! "New" idea, and the patent lawyers and finance wonks rejoice.
LLMs may not be able to truly "invent" "new" things, depending on where you place those particular goalposts.
However, even a year or two ago - well before Deep Research et al - they could be shockingly useful for drawing connections between disparate fields and applications. I was working through a "try to sort out the design space of a chemical process" type exercise, and decided to ask whichever GPT was available and free at the time about analogous applications and processes in various industries.
After a bit of prodding it made some suggestions that I definitely could have come up on my own if I had the requisite domain knowledge, but would almost certainly never have managed on my own. It also caused me to make a connection between a few things that I don't think I would have stumbled upon otherwise.
I checked with my chemist friends, and they said the resulting ideas were worth testing. After much iteration, one of the suggested compounds/approaches ended up generating the least bad result from that set of experiments.
I've previously sketched out a framework for using these tools (combined with other similar machine learning/AI/simulation tools) to massively improve the energy consumption of industrial chemical processes. It seems to me that that type of application is one where the LLM's environmental cost could be very much offset by the advances it provides.
The social cost is a completely different question though, and I think a very valid one. I also don't think our economic system is structured in such a way that the social costs will ever be mitigated.
Where am I going with this? I'm not sure.
Is there a "ghost in the machine"? I wouldn't place a bet on yes, at least not today. But I think that there is a fair bit of something there. Utility, if nothing else. They seem like a force multiplier to me, and I think that with proper guidance, that force multiplier could be applied to basic research, material science, economics, and "inventions".
Right now, it does seem that it takes someone with a lot of knowledge about the specific area, process, or task to get really good results out of LLMs.
Will that always be true? I don't know. I think there's at least one piece of the puzzle we don't have sorted out yet, and that the utility of the existing models/architectures will ride the s-curve up a bit longer but ultimately flatten out.
I'm also wrong a LOT, so I wouldn't bet a shiny nickel on that.
Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts
#153> Every line was thoroughly reviewed and cross-referenced with relevant RFCs, by security experts with previous experience with those RFCs. This sounds like coding but slower
I would say it ended up being much faster than had I written it by hand. It took a few days to produce this library -- it would almost certainly have taken me weeks to write it myself.
reminded me of my university classes where i took my own notes vs studied someone else's notes. you can guess which one was superior.
Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
And there might be a giant asteroid that strikes the earth a few years down the line ending human civilization. If there is some magic $10k AI that can fully replace a $200k software engineer then I'd love to see it. Until that happens this entire discussion is science fiction.
If experts were saying the astroid will hit earth in the next 5 years, would it still be science fiction? You acting like those two scenarios are the same is disingenuous. Fuck that.
With AI, there's no real expertise involved in saying "well, it was very stupid 5 years ago, now it's starting to seem smart, if we extrapolate it's going to be smarter than me in 5 years." But no one really knows what level of effort is required to make it smarter than me. No one is an expert in something that doesn't exist yet.
Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They can get halfway there and then struggle immensely. Restart the conversation from scratch. As soon as you get something incorrect, begin from the beginning. It seems to me like any mistake in a messages chain/conversation instantly poisons the output afterwards, even if you try to "correct" it. So if something was wrong at one point, you need to go back to the initial message, and adjust it to clarify the promp…
Can you imagine if Excel worked like this? the formula put out the wrong result, so try again! It's like that scene from The Office where Michael has an accountant "run it again." It's farcical. They have created computers that are bad at math and I will never forgive them. Also, each try costs money! You're pulling the lever on a god damned slot machine! I will TRY AGAIN with the same prompt when I start getting a r…
I mean, why would I imagine that? Who would want that? It's like the argument against legal marijuana, and someone replies "But would you like your pilot to be high when flying?!". Right tool for the right job, clearly when you want 100% certainty then LLMs aren't the tool for that. Just because they're useful for some things don't mean we have to replace everything with them.
> Also, each try costs money!
I guess you're using some paid API? Try a different way then. I mostly use the web UI from OpenAI, or Codex lately, or ran locally with my own agent using local weights, neither is "each try costs money" more than writing data to my SSD is costing me money.
It's not a holy grail some people paint it, and not sure we're across the "productivity threshold" (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44160664) yet, but it's worth trying it out probably before jumping to conclusions. But no one is forcing you either, YMMV and all that.
Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts
#156AI critics always have to make strawmen arguments about how there has to be a human in the loop to "fix" things when that's never been the argument AI proponents ever make (at least those who deal with it day to day). This will only get better with time. AI can frequently one-shot throwaway scripts that I need get things done. For actual features I typically start and have it go thru the initial slog and then finish…
The one thing about concocting throwaway scripts yourself is the increased familiarity with the tooling you use. And you're not actually throwing away those scripts. I have random scripts laying around my file system (and my shell history) to check how I did a task in the past.
In general I agree, but sometimes you want something that you haven't done in years but vaguely remember.
~20 years ago I worked with ffmpeg and vlc extensively in an IPTV project. It took me months to RTFM, implement stuff, test and so on. Documentation was king, and really the only thing I could use. Old-school. But after that project I moved on.
In 2018 I worked on a ML - CV project. I knew vlc / ffmpeg could do everything that I needed, but I had forgotten most of everything by then. So I googled/so/random-blogs, plus a bit of RTFM where things didn't match. But it still took a few days to cobble together the thing I needed.
Now I just ask, and the perfect one-liner pops-up, I run it, check that it does what I need it to, and go on my merry way. Verification is much faster than context changing, searching, reading, understanding, testing it out, using a work-around for the features that ffmpeg supports but not that python wrapper, and so on.
Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts
#157From this commit: https://github.com/cloudflare/workers-oauth-provider/commit/... === "Fix Claude's bug manually. Claude had a bug in the previous commit. I prompted it multiple times to fix the bug but it kept doing the wrong thing. So this change is manually written by a human. I also extended the README to discuss the OAuth 2.1 spec problem." === This is super relatable to my experience trying to use these AI tool…
> They can get halfway there and then struggle immensely. Restart the conversation from scratch. As soon as you get something incorrect, begin from the beginning. It seems to me like any mistake in a messages chain/conversation instantly poisons the output afterwards, even if you try to "correct" it. So if something was wrong at one point, you need to go back to the initial message, and adjust it to clarify the promp…
Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
> On the other hand, where I remain a skeptic is this constant banging-on that somehow this will translate into entirely new things - research, materials science, economies, inventions, etc Does it even have to be able to do so? Just the ability to speed up exploration and validation based on what a human tells it to do is already enormously useful, depending on how much you can speed up those things, and how accurat…
> Just the ability to speed up exploration and validation based on what a human tells it to do is already enormously useful, depending on how much you can speed up those things, and how accurate it can be. The big question is: is it useful enough to justify the cost when the VC subsidies go away? My phone recently offered me Gemini "now for free" and I thought "free for now, you mean. I better not get used to that. T…
I won't claim local LLMs as nearly as good as various top models behind paid subscriptions/APIs, but I'm certain I'd be able find a way (for me) of working with them well enough, if the entire paid/hosted ecosystem disappeared over night. Even with models released today.
I think the VC subsidies probably "make stuff happen" faster, and without it we'd see slower progress, but I don't think 100% of the ecosystem would disappear even if 100% of VC funding disappeared. We're bound for another AI winter at one point, and some will surely survive even that :)
Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They can get halfway there and then struggle immensely. Restart the conversation from scratch. As soon as you get something incorrect, begin from the beginning. It seems to me like any mistake in a messages chain/conversation instantly poisons the output afterwards, even if you try to "correct" it. So if something was wrong at one point, you need to go back to the initial message, and adjust it to clarify the promp…
Chatbot UIs really need better support for conversation branching all around. It's very handy to be able to just right-click on any random message in the conversation in LM Studio and say, "branch from here".
Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
> On the other hand, where I remain a skeptic is this constant banging-on that somehow this will translate into entirely new things - research, materials science, economies, inventions, etc Does it even have to be able to do so? Just the ability to speed up exploration and validation based on what a human tells it to do is already enormously useful, depending on how much you can speed up those things, and how accurat…
> Just the ability to speed up exploration and validation based on what a human tells it to do is already enormously useful, depending on how much you can speed up those things, and how accurate it can be. The big question is: is it useful enough to justify the cost when the VC subsidies go away? My phone recently offered me Gemini "now for free" and I thought "free for now, you mean. I better not get used to that. T…
It's also getting cheaper all the time. Something like 1000x cheaper in the last two years at the same quality level, and there's not yet any sign of a plateau.
So it'd be quite surprising if the only long-term business model turned out to be subscriptions.