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Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

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Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#151

Post by _DeadFred_ »

ahmedfromtunis wrote: post #102
hollowturtle wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a prompt describe creativity? It's a vision so far off that it's so frustrating because greater creativity came from limited tools, greater creativity came from imperfections, a different point of view, love, a slightly off touch of a painter or a guitar player, the wood of the instrument and the humidity affecting. I can go on and on, prompts are a reduction to the minimum term of everything you'd want to d…

So deliberately writing a prompt that meticulously describes how a generated photo would look like isn't creative, but pushing a button for a machine to take the photo for you is??!! If anything, it's the way around! Of course that's not what I believe, but let's not limit the definition of what creativity based on historical limitations. Let's see what the new generation of artists and creators will use this new cap…

Your meticulous prompt is using the work of thousands of experts, and generating a mashup of what they did/their work/their commitment/their livelihood.

Their placement of books. Their aesthetic. The collection of cool things to put into a scene to make it interesting. The lighting. Not yours. Not from you/not from the AI. None of it is yours/you/new/from the AI. It's ALL based underneath on someone else's work, someone else's life, someone else's heart and soul, and you are just taking it and saying 'look what I made'. The equivalent of a 4 year old being potty trained saying 'look I made a poop'. We celebrate it as a first step, not as the friggen end goal. The end goal is you making something uniquely you, based on your life experience, not on Bob the prop guys and Betty the set designer whose work/style you stole and didn't even have the decency to reference/thank.

And your prompt won't ever change dramatically, because there isn't going to be much new truly creative seedcorn for AI to digest. Entertainment will literally go into limbo/Groundhog Day, just the same generative, derivative things/asthetics from the same AI dataset.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#152

Post by ivape »

nrjames wrote: post #70

This is technically impressive and I commend the team that brought it to life. It makes me sad, though. I wish we were pushing AI more to automate non-creative work and not burying the creatives among us in a pile of AI generated content.

Dude.

Making a movie is not accessible to most people and it's EVERYONES dream. This is not even there yet, but I have a few movies I need to make and I will never get a cast together and go do it before I die. If some creatives need to take a backseat so a million more creatives can get a chance, then so be it.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#153

Post by kevinventullo »

lxe wrote: post #141
gloosx wrote: post #125

>>models create, empowering artists to bring their creative vision Interesting logic the new era brings: something else creates, and you only "bring your vision to life", but what it means is left for readers questioning, your "vision" here is your text prompt? Were at a crossroads where the tools are powerful enough to make the process optional. That raises uncomfortable questions: if you don’t have to create anymor…

I've been doing AI art since 2022 and I'm still both disappointed and not quite surprised that this still is a pervasive view of what it takes to create anything high quality using AI. If you take any high quality AI content and ask their creator what their workflow is, you'll quickly discover that the complexity and nuance required to actually create something high-quality and something that actually "fulfills your…

Given the pervasiveness of AI slop with hundreds of thousands of likes on Facebook, I wouldn’t be so sure about using social media metrics as proof of high skill and effort.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#154

Post by jplusequalt »

lxe wrote: post #141
gloosx wrote: post #125

>>models create, empowering artists to bring their creative vision Interesting logic the new era brings: something else creates, and you only "bring your vision to life", but what it means is left for readers questioning, your "vision" here is your text prompt? Were at a crossroads where the tools are powerful enough to make the process optional. That raises uncomfortable questions: if you don’t have to create anymor…

I've been doing AI art since 2022 and I'm still both disappointed and not quite surprised that this still is a pervasive view of what it takes to create anything high quality using AI. If you take any high quality AI content and ask their creator what their workflow is, you'll quickly discover that the complexity and nuance required to actually create something high-quality and something that actually "fulfills your…

>If you take any high quality AI content and ask their creator what their workflow is, you'll quickly discover that the complexity and nuance required to actually create something high-quality and something that actually "fulfills your vision" is incredibly complex

This comes off as so tone deaf seeing your AI artwork is only possible due to the millions of hours spent by real people who created the art used to train these models. Maybe it's easier to understand why people don't respect AI "artists" with this in mind.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#155

Post by EGreg »

strongpigeon wrote: post #137
vunderba wrote: post #22

After doing some testing, Imagen 4 doesn't score any higher than Imagen 3 on my comparison chart, approximately ~60% prompt adherence accuracy. https://genai-showdown.specr.net

How can you tell you're using Imagen 4 and not Imagen 3? Gemini seems unable to tell me which model it's using. Are you using Vertex AI?

Tell me you’re using Imagen 3 without telling me you’re using Imagen 4… or something

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#156

Post by ivape »

lilwobbles wrote: post #86
yieldcrv wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a creative and I’m really glad that more people can express themselves Just wanted to add representation to that feeling

Expressing themselves by generating boilerplate content? Creativity is a conversation with yourself and God. Stripping away the struggle that comes with creativity defeats the entire purpose. Making it easier to make content is good for capital, but no one will ever get fulfillment out of prompting an AI and settling with the result.

Check out all the creatives on /r/screenwriting, half the time they are trying to figure out how to "make connections" just to get a story considered. It's a fucking nightmare out there. Whatever god is providing us with AI is the greatest gift I could imagine to a creative.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#157

Post by hooverd »

gloosx wrote: post #125

>>models create, empowering artists to bring their creative vision Interesting logic the new era brings: something else creates, and you only "bring your vision to life", but what it means is left for readers questioning, your "vision" here is your text prompt? Were at a crossroads where the tools are powerful enough to make the process optional. That raises uncomfortable questions: if you don’t have to create anymor…

LLM providers want to a) make you dependent on their services as you outsource your skills and cognition and b) use that dependency to skim the cream off every economic activity.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#158

Post by TechDebtDevin »

swalsh wrote: post #109
nrjames wrote: post #70

This is technically impressive and I commend the team that brought it to life. It makes me sad, though. I wish we were pushing AI more to automate non-creative work and not burying the creatives among us in a pile of AI generated content.

I think the non-creative work is coming... but it's harder, needs more accuracy, and just generally takes more effort. But it's 100% coming. AI today can one shot with about 80% perfection. But for use cases that need to be higher than that, that last 20% is grueling to gain. It's like taking a jet across the country, and then getting jammed in traffic while you're taking a taxi to your hotel.

80% on todo apps

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#159

Post by hooverd »

ahmedfromtunis wrote: post #102
hollowturtle wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a prompt describe creativity? It's a vision so far off that it's so frustrating because greater creativity came from limited tools, greater creativity came from imperfections, a different point of view, love, a slightly off touch of a painter or a guitar player, the wood of the instrument and the humidity affecting. I can go on and on, prompts are a reduction to the minimum term of everything you'd want to d…

So deliberately writing a prompt that meticulously describes how a generated photo would look like isn't creative, but pushing a button for a machine to take the photo for you is??!! If anything, it's the way around! Of course that's not what I believe, but let's not limit the definition of what creativity based on historical limitations. Let's see what the new generation of artists and creators will use this new cap…

Eh, every AI "artist" want the cachet of being an artist without any of the effort, but they're competing with other AI "artists" so they have no choice but to unleash a firehose of content sludge onto the commons in a race to the bottom.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#160

Post by MattGrommes »

jampa wrote: post #145
gamblor956 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing creative in having someone or something else doing the work for you. "Creating" with an AI is like an executive "inventing" the work actually done by their team of researchers. A team owner "winning" a game played by the their team. That being said, AI output is very useful for brainstorming and exploring a creative space. The problem is when the brainstorming material is used for production.

The first two paragraphs of your argument could be used to discuss whether Photography (Camera is doing most of the work) or Digital Drawing (Photoshop is doing most of the work) are art. Both things which were dismissed as not art at first but are widely accepted as an art medium nowadays.

I see this comparison to a camera a lot but I don't think it works (not that you're saying this, I'm just contributing). I'm not an expert but to me the camera is doing very little of the work involved in taking an artistic picture. The photographer chooses which camera to use to get a certain effect, which lenses, the framing, etc. All the camera is doing recording the output of what the person is specifying.
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