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Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

yle.fi

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Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#151

Post by zokier »

gorgoiler wrote: post #146

There ought to be good reason for optimism with this project. The land is already purchased so you “just” need to re-lay the track. Ballast cleaners* are a thing and they are already pretty amazing at what they do, namely taking apart track and then putting it back, in place, from a machine that runs on those very tracks itself. I could imagine a giant version that not only cleans the ballast but also unties then ret…

> The land is already purchased so you “just” need to re-lay the track.

While the details are unknown, this project will almost certainly mean new tracks alongside the old tracks at least for the main lines. Which means that the existing corridors in many places would not have enough space. Additionally there is probably desire to improve the geometry to allow higher speed trains, so that makes the existing corridors less useful

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#152

Post by vintermann »

adrianmsmith wrote: post #130
varsketiz wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the main goals of this is to not have the russian gauge available in case russians attack, so that logistics deeper into Finland cant happen easily with the same train, so backwards compatability is not desired.

> One of the main goals of this is to not have the russian gauge available in case russians attack This doesn't seem like it can be a goal given > maybe in 2032 we can start construction I mean unless the plan is to assume Russia won't attack until e.g. 2040 when construction will be complete && Russia can't implement multi-gauge trains that Spain is already using now?

Like most such things, it's probably mostly symbolic, so politicians can say they're doing something in defiance of Russia (which is a very popular thing to do in Finland right now, or most of the west for that matter). I guess they'll back down on it when by 2032, everyone realizes it doesn't matter since wars will be fought with small autonomous drones and any railroad would be sabotaged in an instant.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#153

Post by lukan »

pjc50 wrote: post #126
lukan wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a minor delay and in case of war such a delay can easily cost billions. And if there isn't a war, the benefits of a interconnected and integrated european railwail network are potentially huge. 300 km/h trains connecting Finnland with Spain with no delay or bumps? That would be something.

> 300 km/h trains connecting Finnland with Spain with no delay or bumps? Bit tricky this: either you cross the Baltic by ferry and resume at Tallinn, or you have to go a long way round north from Helsinki and come down again through Sweden, across Oresund and through Denmark.

Yeah, I meant the northern way, but a tunnel into the baltics, or a normal, peaceful landconnection over St.Petersburg would of course make more sense for connecting Helsinki. Or connecting Helsinki with Stockholm via Åland.

All nice concepts. All quite expensive obviously.

https://www.euronews.com/next/2025/03/08/will-a-bridge-acros...

https://ferryshippingnews.com/aland-islands-tunnel-is-back-o...

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#154

Post by kibwen »

potato3732842 wrote: post #117
varsketiz wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the main goals of this is to not have the russian gauge available in case russians attack, so that logistics deeper into Finland cant happen easily with the same train, so backwards compatability is not desired.

It's not like this results in a categorical difference in difficulty. Gauge switching infrastructure is common at borders. Yeah stopping and switching is slower than driving right through but it's not the end of the world in the long tail of military logistics.

Gauge switching requires trains outfitted with specialized axles (increasing the cost to invade), requires trains to stop (increasing the train's vulnerability to attack), and requires switching stations which themselves are juicy targets and can't be repaired nearly as trivially as an ordinary length of rail.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#156

Post by ceejayoz »

anticodon wrote: post #80
cromulent wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Progress has been made and is ongoing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_Baltica#Project_progress

I've read your link. Where's the actual progress? But billions of euros has already been spent.

Yes, that’s how things work. You spend money on projects before their completion, just like you buy ingredients for dinner before a meal arrives on your plate.

I imagine you’re looking for the subheadings titled “completed in 2015” and “construction (2017-present)” though.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#157

Post by apexalpha »

At least the Russian gage is broader than the European one.

Imagine the cost if it was the other way around... Nevertheless, a valiant effort by the Finnish.

I guess we eventually have to do Ukraine (and Iberia?) too, so hopefully the lessons learned can be applied there.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#158

Post by abbe98 »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #118
abbe98 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The connection between Finland and Sweden was built in 1919, however it was recently electrified(January 2025). It's dual gauge(four rails).

Ok so it's passengers link that is under development. Doesn't change the big picture, though.

I don't think there are any ongoing projects, the current link can take passenger trains but there are no plans to do so at the moment.

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torne%C3%A5%E2%80%93Haparanda-...

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#159

Post by StefanBatory »

pydry wrote: post #133
oblio wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fear of a foreign invasion by a country much larger than your, and one that occupied you once for 200 years and attacked you again just 20 years after independence tends to clear the mind.

Fear of foreign invasion is also why the Soviet Union invaded during the Winter War ("Greater Finland" irredentism was a thing, and St Petersburg was militarily exposed). Fear is why Finland allied with the Nazis. Fear is why the Soviet Union also signed a pact with the Nazis and invaded Ukraine. It's easy to justify anything with fear.

Fear is why Finland allied with the Nazis.

... or maybe because Fins got invaded by Soviets.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#160

Post by npteljes »

thrdbndndn wrote: post #56
blueflow wrote: post #41

Get a look on the track topology on openrailwaymap: https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?style=gauge&lat=62.774837258...

The legend on this site is a joke. It's almost impossible to see the colors under the numbers, as they're only a few pixels wide: https://i.imgur.com/k8k394D.png

Also barely any contrast between 1520mm and 1524mm, but I'm sure the trains would mind that distinction a lot.
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