Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

komiko.app

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 232 posts

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#151

Post by falsaberN1 »

perching_aix wrote: post #123
sbarre wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're seeing machine generation of derivative visual materials. There's a difference, in my mind at least. "Art" is cultural activity and expression, there needs to be intent, creativity, imagination.. A printer spooling out wallpaper is not making art, even if there was artistry involved in making the initial pattern that is now being spooled out.

The way I think of art has two main components: the aesthetics and the higher level impressions invoked through those aesthetics. For me, art is specifically about the experimentation-with and the then-intentional use of aesthetics, to evoke a specific set of impressions within its audience. A form of communication, a transfer of experiences, frames of mind, and ideas. The more effectively and intelligently one can d…

It's human intent.

AI is technically another tool, and it can be used poorly (what people refer to "AI slop", using default settings, some LoRA and calling it a day) and it can be used properly (forcing compositions, editing, fixing errors...) to convey an idea or emotion or tell a story. Critical eye does the rest.

After all, the machine doesn't do anything on its own, it needs a driver. The quality of the output is directly proportional to the operator's amount of passion.

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#152

Post by anton-c »

emsign wrote: post #71
sshine wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s great that you have sympathy for illustrators, but I don’t see a big difference if the training data is a novel, a picture, a song, a piece of code, or even a piece of legal text. As my mom retired from being a translator, she went from typewriter to machine-assisted translation with centralised corpus-databases. All the while the available work became less and less, and the wages became lower and lower. In the…

You can't compare translation to creating new works of art. Sorry mom, but that's apples and oranges. A dangerously false comparison.

If you speak more than one language(esp something like Chinese or Japanese) you understand how subjective some choices are. It certainly takes creative decision making.

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#153

Post by kiney »

ben_w wrote: post #92
kouteiheika wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As my mom retired from being a translator, she went from typewriter to machine-assisted translation with centralised corpus-databases. All the while the available work became less and less, and the wages became lower and lower. She was lucky to be able to retire when she did, as the job of a translator is definitely going to become extinct. You can already get higher quality translations from machine learning model…

While LLMs are pretty good, and likely to improve, my experience is OpenAI's offerings *absolutely* make stuff up after a few thousand words or so, and they're one of the better ones. It also varies by language. Every time I give an example here of machine translated English-to-Chinese, it's so bad that the responses are all people who can read Chinese being confused because it's gibberish. And as for politics, as Gr…

no, "Softwareentwickler" doed NOT mean the person is male. It's the correct german form for either male OR generic. (generisches Maskulinum)

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#154

Post by falsaberN1 »

xyzal wrote: post #62
rhubarbtree wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many artists will see that if they publish anything original then AI companies will immediately use it as training data without regards to copyright. The result will be less original art. They will simply stop creating it or publishing it. IMO music streaming has similarly lead to a collapse in quality music artistry, as fewer talented individuals are incentivised to go down that path. AI will do the same for…

It is a fluke visual training sets are far less amenable to sabotage than textual ones. Not that I suggest engaging in such a horrible, terrible, very bad manners, do I?

I'm sorry to inform you that the mere automated pre-processing used in building of a training set will most likely disable any form of poisoning because the image is being altered before training. All popular training tools do this.

Art stealing is a thing. I've had by art stolen regularly. Multiple Doom mods use sprites I made and only one person (the DRLA guy) asked for permission. I've had my art traced and even used in advertisements with me only finding out by sheer chance. I've had people use it for coloring without crediting the source. This has happened for more than thirty years. You can only learn to live with it, lest you risk going absolutely insane. If you are popular, people will do stupid stuff with your stuff. And if you aren't popular, you art is not going to be used to train, anyway (sets are ordered by popularity and only the top stuff gets used. The one with 3 upvotes is not going in.)

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#156

Post by blaeks »

gabriel666smith wrote: post #49
earthnail wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it interesting that you echo the concerns of people who defend artists’ copyright claims, while stating that you are very pro AI in terms of copyright. It’s a very emotionally loaded space for many, meaning most comments I read lean to the extremes of either argument, so seeing a comment like yours that combines both makes me curious. Would be interesting to hear a bit more about how you see the role of copyri…

Not GP, though I agree with their views, and make my money from copyrighted work (writing novels). The role of the artist has always been to provide excellent training data for future minds to educate themselves with. This is why public libraries, free galleries, etc are so important. Historically, art has been ‘best’ when the process of its creation has been heavily funded by a wealthy body (the church or state, for…

"The role of the artist has always been to provide excellent training data for future minds to educate themselves with."

We are not aware of the implications of this sentence. This is it. The only "source" is play. Joyful play.

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#157

Post by atomicnumber3 »

kachapopopow wrote: post #40

Some of these are very obviously trained on webtoons and manga, probably pixiv as well. This is very clear due to seeing CG buildings and other misc artifacts. So this is obviously trained on copyrighted material. Art is something that cannot be generated like synthetic text so it will have to be nearly forever powered by human artists or else you will continue to end up with artifacting. So it makes me wonder if art…

AI is just going to absolutely blow the bottom 50% out of any market it's in.

Examples:

Disney isn't going to start using AI art. But all those gacha games on the iOS app store are ABSOLUTELY going to. And I suspect gacha apps support at least 10-100x more artists than Disney staffs.

Staff engineers aren't going anywhere - AI can't tell leadership the truth. But junior engineers are going to be gutted by this, because now their already somewhat dubious direct value proposition - turning tickets into code while they train up enough to participate more in the creative and social process of Software Engineering - now gets blasted by LLMs. Mind you, I don't personally hold this ultra-myopic view of juniors - but mgmt absolutely does, and they pick headcount.

Hmm yknow I could actually see Big Books getting the "top" end eaten by AI instead of the bottom, actually. All the penny dreadfuls you see lining the shelves of Barnes and Noble. Vs the truly creative work already happens at the bottom anyway, and is self-published.

Also, as someone who's watched copyright from the perspective of a GPL fanboy, good fucking luck actually enforcing anything copyright related. The legal system is pay to play and if you're a small (or even medium!) fry, you will probably never even know your copyright is being violated. Much less enforcing it or getting any kind of judgement.

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#158

Post by TeMPOraL »

kiney wrote: post #153
ben_w wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While LLMs are pretty good, and likely to improve, my experience is OpenAI's offerings *absolutely* make stuff up after a few thousand words or so, and they're one of the better ones. It also varies by language. Every time I give an example here of machine translated English-to-Chinese, it's so bad that the responses are all people who can read Chinese being confused because it's gibberish. And as for politics, as Gr…

no, "Softwareentwickler" doed NOT mean the person is male. It's the correct german form for either male OR generic. (generisches Maskulinum)

Same is true in Polish, but the feminist movement insists this is not acceptable and tries to push feminatives.

I personally have no strong opinion on this, FWIW, just confirming GP's making a good point there. A translated word or phrase may be technically, grammatically correct, but still not be culturally correct.

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#159

Post by SubiculumCode »

kachapopopow wrote: post #40

Some of these are very obviously trained on webtoons and manga, probably pixiv as well. This is very clear due to seeing CG buildings and other misc artifacts. So this is obviously trained on copyrighted material. Art is something that cannot be generated like synthetic text so it will have to be nearly forever powered by human artists or else you will continue to end up with artifacting. So it makes me wonder if art…

You know, I wouldn't short what AI can do in the future, even if not trained on lots of art. It does not seem far out to me to think an AI could be trained to identify in images concepts like structure, balance, contrast, composition, narrative, etc, and then to pursue generation of such in procedural, iterative loops of drawing/painting using test time compute and a prompt for an objective.

Re: AniSora: Open-source anime video generation model

#160

Post by rhubarbtree »

rererereferred wrote: post #133
rhubarbtree wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many artists will see that if they publish anything original then AI companies will immediately use it as training data without regards to copyright. The result will be less original art. They will simply stop creating it or publishing it. IMO music streaming has similarly lead to a collapse in quality music artistry, as fewer talented individuals are incentivised to go down that path. AI will do the same for…

> music streaming has similarly lead to a collapse in quality music artistry, as fewer talented individuals are incentivised to go down that path. Is there data for this? I feel there's more musicians than ever and there's more very talented musicians than ever and the most famous ones are more famous than ever so I would like to see if that's correct.

I’ve heard other people say that.

I think there are more musicians with reach than ever.

I would say it’s very likely there are far fewer musicians making a living out of their music than there were in the last. That’s the key difference.

And the truth is that for most people incentives matter, so not being able to make a living from music means very talented people who are financially motivated (ie most of them) do something else instead.

Post reply on HN