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OpenAI for Countries

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Re: OpenAI for Countries

#151

Post by nicbou »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #124
kiernanmcgowan wrote: post #8

> We want to help these countries, and in the process, spread democratic AI I'm reading this in the same voice as Helldivers 2 "managed democracy"

There are countries with more and less freedoms than USA... Operating to that countries standard opens up the market and improves UX.

Facebook did that. It ended up exposing a lot of private information to China and supporting a genocide in Myanmar.

Tech companies only care about growth. They only care about anything else insofar as it supports growth.

Re: OpenAI for Countries

#152

Post by nicbou »

paradite wrote: post #136

I'm getting so much sci-fi vibes from this post. I've read so many sci-fi stories where big tech corporations have similar control over people as countries. Now we are actually heading there. I'm both excited and a bit worried about the future.

Heading there? Facebook has been a kingmaker for a decade. Musk runs DOGE. Most big companies can bully smaller administrations when they feel the need.

Re: OpenAI for Countries

#153

Post by sReinwald »

eksu wrote: post #19
rikafurude21 wrote: post #16

I dont get the proposition, they want to build DCs in partnering countries to run GPT on? Who is this useful for, except for OpenAI to get lower latency connections to their customers?

Not latencies, think data privacy / keeping queries and data from leaving sovereign borders. This way, if there is some local instance / everything is local than the datacenter and service are subject to local laws and regulations (and alternatively you're not subject to foriegn the laws and regulations (and agencies).

That's not quite correct. The "sovereignty" pitch here is largely illusory when dealing with a US-based company like OpenAI.

The US CLOUD Act (Clarifying Lawful Overseas Use of Data Act) explicitly gives US authorities the power to compel US-based companies to provide data stored on servers, regardless of where those servers are physically located. This effectively undermines any meaningful data sovereignty claims.

Consider the actual arrangement being proposed:

    - OpenAI (US company) maintains control of the infrastructure
    - OpenAI controls the models and their development
    - OpenAI maintains the security protocols and access rights
    - The data merely sits physically within national borders
This isn't sovereignty - it's a limited hosting arrangement that remains fully under US legal jurisdiction. US intelligence agencies can still access this data through legal mechanisms that bypass the host country's laws entirely.

Re: OpenAI for Countries

#154

Post by kubb »

hayst4ck wrote: post #69
slg wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the most shocking aspects of this era of history is the number of people who not only end up accidentally resembling or aligning with the bad guys of our satire and dystopian fiction, but how many of them seem to be actively and intentionally pursuing that path. It's the Torment Nexus all the way down.

That's because there are no consequences for bad behavior, only reward. Game theory dictates that if bad behavior is a winning strategy it will be adopted and propagate until it is the dominant strategy. The only way it stops becoming a winning strategy is if we provide consequences, but that requires taking personal responsibility for the state of the world, which was a core American value, but doesn't seem to be an…

How do you reconcile the belief that personal responsibility is the solution with game theoretical analysis? It seems contradictory to me.

In order to change the game theoretic outcomes, we‘d need a systemic change that affects the rewards, not a personal attitude change that will become a losing strategy in the game.

Also, do you remember how tobacco companies were invited to the table to discuss whether smoking is bad for you? Were those the days of personal responsibility or was it even before that?

Re: OpenAI for Countries

#155

Post by kubb »

_bin_ wrote: post #131
Sol- wrote: post #32

Comes with a free US government backdoor to all of the foreign citizens' data and AI usage. Though of course this is already the status quo for all US companies abroad, so you have to give props to OpenAI for spelling it out explicitly: Give up what remains of your digital sovereignty to the US government and you get a small piece of the AGI pie.

The pattern for basically every small nation is "choose of which superpower you wish to be a client." From that patron you get some level of benefit. Not aligning with any either doesn't work (you get attacked) or means you get no benefit (and eventually get pushed into obscurity and instability.) You can make a lot of complaints about America but we have, looking back on history, been nicer than any other patron. Ot…

> The pattern for basically every small nation is "choose of which superpower you wish to be a client."

This is straight up Russian mentality.

> extravagant welfare states of the past decades, subsidized largely by American defense spending

This sounds to me like a US partisan narrative rather than anything else. It’s a nice story, because it strokes the American ego, but I’ve yet seen it backed up by serious analysis. Most likely it’s just a story.

Re: OpenAI for Countries

#156

Post by gloosx »

Is it really clear to everyone that this kind of infrastructure will be the backbone of future economic growth and national development?

Helping people do more? Scaling our ability to create and produce?

Sadly, none of these things ever made us happier as humans.

Re: OpenAI for Countries

#157

Post by selfhoster11 »

soared wrote: post #98
mooreds wrote: post #54

On several of Tyler Cowen's recent podcasts, he has said essentially "there are really only two countries that have AI, China and the USA. Does this mean that other countries (like Peru) won't really have a functioning, powerful government when AI runs everything". See https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/chris-dixon/ > As you know, not many countries have serious AI companies, and even those in Europe may or…

IMO that analysis is shortsighted when looking at other technologies. Peru’s government would grind to a halt with say, windows/osx, excel, chrome, email etc. They are all tools that enable work. I don’t see AI being categorically different. In this hypothetical world where AI runs the treasury, is the US now in a massively better position to make treasury related decisions? Maybe? Does the US gov have a remote chanc…

By and large, those technologies do not come with an always-on umbilical that leads out of the borders of those countries. It is relatively easy to build out capacity, unlike with AI that requires extremely specialised hardware in vast quantities.

Re: OpenAI for Countries

#158

Post by selfhoster11 »

apwell23 wrote: post #142
HeatrayEnjoyer wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fancy autocomplete is, today, killing people in at least two wars. We must stop dismissing the technical nightmare now at our doorstep.

llms are killing ppl ? care to share any references ?

Anthropic is allowing the US government to use their services. This includes various intelligence organisations and their data analysis they presumably use to target strikes.

Re: OpenAI for Countries

#160

Post by vitorgrs »

martythemaniak wrote: post #118

> We’ve heard from many countries asking for help in building out similar AI infrastructure—that they want their own Stargates and similar projects. Who is this for exactly? The thing about reneging on your agreements and treaties and threatening and demonizing everyone around you is that they learn not to trust you. US-led AI sounds terrible, it would never pass muster in Canada. Neither in the EU, China, India, Bra…

Brazil it's actually building a project to give tax breaks and change/simplify a few regulation for datacenter projects. Import tariffs will also be 0 for them...

Finance Minister it's in the California trying to bring investments from the big techs... He met with Jensen Huang already.

I wouldn't doubt if Brazil might be interested.

TikTok is also interested in building a datacenter in Ceará, Brazil, as part of this project.

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