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Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

developer.apple.com

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Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#151

Post by InTheArena »

post_break wrote: post #146

This is what bad management at Apple looks like. They were now forced to cut off the spice flow that is millions of dollars of IAPs from games in their coveted services pie chart because they got cocky. Roblox alone is going to show up on their balance chart. Epic throwing water on an oil fire with their comments make me grin, they are the reason Apple lowered AppStore pricing, and now they are the reason Apple can n…

Congrats. Two of the most user-hostile companies, one of which profits by exploiting children, are going to be better off. And let's also be clear, neither of these companies wants this revenue stream to go away; they just want a judge to give that revenue stream to them.

Get rid of Roblox's and Epic's anti-consumer behavior, and then I will "grin" at this.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#152

Post by plufz »

behnamoh wrote: post #131
fundatus wrote: post #3

Sigh, not that I expected anything else from Apple at this point but of course they only change the rules for the US.

One word: greed. Apple as the company we used to know is long dead. I still buy MacBooks and iPhones but only because some remnant of the past still exists in them. The new company came up with Vision Pro, screwing Spotify over app commissions, screwing game developers users love (Epic), non-upgradeable devices, extremely difficult repairability, etc.

Steve Jobs was quite famously against upgradability since the start. That is not something new for Apple.

Honestly I love the current macs, but of course I would like to be able to upgrade them as well. But yeah I also have the feeling that Apple is getting less innovative, more sloppy and more greedy, but I'm not sure I think its become a whole other company.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#153

Post by post_break »

InTheArena wrote: post #151
post_break wrote: post #146

This is what bad management at Apple looks like. They were now forced to cut off the spice flow that is millions of dollars of IAPs from games in their coveted services pie chart because they got cocky. Roblox alone is going to show up on their balance chart. Epic throwing water on an oil fire with their comments make me grin, they are the reason Apple lowered AppStore pricing, and now they are the reason Apple can n…

Congrats. Two of the most user-hostile companies, one of which profits by exploiting children, are going to be better off. And let's also be clear, neither of these companies wants this revenue stream to go away; they just want a judge to give that revenue stream to them. Get rid of Roblox's and Epic's anti-consumer behavior, and then I will "grin" at this.

You should grin any time you see someone make a "god" bleed.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#154

Post by redserk »

InTheArena wrote: post #151
post_break wrote: post #146

This is what bad management at Apple looks like. They were now forced to cut off the spice flow that is millions of dollars of IAPs from games in their coveted services pie chart because they got cocky. Roblox alone is going to show up on their balance chart. Epic throwing water on an oil fire with their comments make me grin, they are the reason Apple lowered AppStore pricing, and now they are the reason Apple can n…

Congrats. Two of the most user-hostile companies, one of which profits by exploiting children, are going to be better off. And let's also be clear, neither of these companies wants this revenue stream to go away; they just want a judge to give that revenue stream to them. Get rid of Roblox's and Epic's anti-consumer behavior, and then I will "grin" at this.

It's still a step forward at least for everyone who doesn't use a product from Epic or Roblox.

There is simply no 100.00% perfect solution here that'll make 100.00% people happy.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#155

Post by ocdtrekkie »

fundatus wrote: post #23
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably they are planning to appeal so want to minimize impacted apps when they hope to make everyone undo all the changes later. If it sticks it is hard not to imagine it becoming global, since the app store tax issue has become a topic of concern in like a dozen countries now.

Yeah, I was hoping Apple would read the room and simply change the rules globally, but I guess they will be trying to squeeze us customers for as long as they can.

The entire thing they got contempt of court for was trying to find a way to continue to squeeze customers as long as they can.

This is the Big Tech playbook. Apple and Google know what they're doing isn't legal. But they make so much doing it, that it's worth the lawyer fees to delay and delay and appeal and appeal as long as possible to keep the money train flowing. Historically the fine has never been as big as the profit, so even if they eventually get in trouble for it, it makes sense for them to profit in the short term.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#156

Post by redwall_hp »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #150
throwaway290 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> screwing Spotify over app commissions Spotify is the one who screws everyone. They deserve it > Epic Epic is another example of a shady company who doesn't want to give a cut from its micro transactions from users (users who are brought to them by Apple's innovation) > difficult repairability iPhone repairability score is 2-3 points higher than Pixel's according to iFixit. Only HMD beats iPhone.

>Spotify is the one who screws everyone. They deserve it How? They pay the exact same percentage as Steam does to it's creators, 70%.

Music royalties are also set by a panel of judges (Copyright Royalty Board). Spotify is not legally able to "screw" anyone. Their pro rata model pays as much or more than the legal requirement. The economics of radio and internet streaming, especially in a world with a democratic explosion of access to recording technology, simply aren't conducive to recording being lucrative.

Record labels are in the business of screwing musicians, though.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#157

Post by ocdtrekkie »

InTheArena wrote: post #151
post_break wrote: post #146

This is what bad management at Apple looks like. They were now forced to cut off the spice flow that is millions of dollars of IAPs from games in their coveted services pie chart because they got cocky. Roblox alone is going to show up on their balance chart. Epic throwing water on an oil fire with their comments make me grin, they are the reason Apple lowered AppStore pricing, and now they are the reason Apple can n…

Congrats. Two of the most user-hostile companies, one of which profits by exploiting children, are going to be better off. And let's also be clear, neither of these companies wants this revenue stream to go away; they just want a judge to give that revenue stream to them. Get rid of Roblox's and Epic's anti-consumer behavior, and then I will "grin" at this.

It's really important to realize Epic could've gotten off with special treatment years ago. Fortnite is large enough to dictate terms, and both Apple and Google have made offers before. Tim Sweeney may someday become the villain, but anyone who doesn't realize he gambled a huge amount of his company's future on demanding change for everyone.

Every single individual app developer should be singing his praises today, because he could've just gotten the deal for his company, and many other companies have gone that route. Epic decided to demand better.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#158

Post by TheDong »

crazygringo wrote: post #104
UncleMeat wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are free to only use apps that use apple payments if you are concerned about this.

But then there are apps you were able to use previously that you will no longer be able to trust. That's the problem -- it's taking away trust. You're not free to continue using Apple's payment system as a consumer.

> You're not free to continue using Apple's payment system as a consumer.

Previously, apps could still require you to not use the apple payment option.

For example, Spotify only let you subscribe on the web because apple's 30% cut is larger than their margin, so they'd lose money if you subscribed in-app.

The "Buy" page in the app was just text saying "You cannot buy a subscription in the app". It couldn't link to the webpage since apple's rule banned that. It couldn't say "You can buy a subscription on our webpage" because apple's rules banned that.

Before, an app could simply not have any payment option in the app, and tell you "You cannot pay here". Now, an app can still choose to have no in-app payment and instead tell you "You can pay on the web", or embed that web payment option in-app.

You are still welcome to refuse to use any apps that don't support apple pay, as you could before.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#159

Post by AtlasBarfed »

stingraycharles wrote: post #133
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably they are planning to appeal so want to minimize impacted apps when they hope to make everyone undo all the changes later. If it sticks it is hard not to imagine it becoming global, since the app store tax issue has become a topic of concern in like a dozen countries now.

This is exactly it. They’re acting as if it’s something that’s going to be reversed, and are going to appeal. If they also apply the same rules to other countries, it would hurt their case that this court order is unjust.

They can just get a presidential pardon for now and all future acts. Companies are people. Unkillable people. Unjailable people. They don't sleep. They have a thousand arms, a thousand eyes, a thousand legs, thousand brains. They get better financing, they can walk away from their financing. I can send unlimited money to politicians. They can exist in a thousand places, countries, legal systems at once.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#160

Post by saurik »

fundatus wrote: post #3

Sigh, not that I expected anything else from Apple at this point but of course they only change the rules for the US.

> ...except for apps on the United States storefront, the apps may not...

This, honestly, doesn't seem to be in line with the injunction if it still applies to apps published by developers from the United States?

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