Live data from Hacker News

One quantum transition makes light at 21 cm

bigthink.com

151–160 of 188 posts

Re: One quantum transition makes light at 21 cm

#151
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It started with the French. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_metric_system The meter was originally based on the measured dimensions of the Earth.

Ah yes, you're right. Another nice coincidence that a seconds pendulum is less than 1% away from 1/10 millionth the distance between the equator and poles.

tanach still does not acknowledges science. so does 1/10 millionth error even matter in grand scheme of things ?

Re: One quantum transition makes light at 21 cm

#152
post #98
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sound pressure wave does take 17 meters in the air to make a full cycle, no ? It’s real, same for the photon

It's not about measuring peak to peak in distance, it's about measuring how long it takes for one spot to encounter second peak after first. The fact that the first peak traveled some distance is irrelevant, as its entirely dependent on propagation speed, which doesn't affect the frequency, only vawelenght.

[deleted]

Re: One quantum transition makes light at 21 cm

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that physics is somehow subjective? We absolutely would have decoded the message.

Physics is a model of reality. Reality is objective, but the model we have chosen is very much "subjective" (maybe arbitrary is a better term). It's easy to imagine that another species might have never conceptualized electrons as little balls orbiting around a nucleus. They are neither balls nor are they flying in circles, those are simply abstractions we like because they appeal to the way we perceive reality. The…

"Arbitrary" ("existing or coming about seemingly at random or by chance or as a capricious and unreasonable act of will", "based on or determined by individual preference or convenience rather than by necessity or the intrinsic nature of something" [1]) is a very poor term. Not only is physics highly constrained by what can be observed in the universe, it is also capable of demonstrating (when it is actually the case) equivalences between apparently dissimilar modes of presentation. It is not perfect, but can you present anything that does better?

[1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arbitrary

Re: One quantum transition makes light at 21 cm

#154
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unsure what the tone of this message is, so I don't know if you're aware, but that's included too: > Behind the figures of the human beings, the silhouette of the Pioneer spacecraft is shown in the same scale so that the size of the human beings can be deduced by measuring the spacecraft. It's good to have redundancy, not just so someone interpreting the plaque can confirm their hypothesis, but also in case one of th…

I sarcastically referenced the plaque itself, which is a convenient disc of a known size to anyone observing the drawing, unlike the space craft or physics riddles. Using quantum transitions is quite ridiculous in my opinion due to requiring not only the observer to have a perfectly compatible understanding of physics (even a more advanced understanding might not be compatible - maybe they don't categorize elements b…

The 21 cm line was chosen specifically because it’s the brightest line in the radio regime in our galaxy. Any civilization in the Milky Way capable of developing electromagnetic sensors would see that emission. There is a game theoretic component to this, as these other civilizations would also know that we could also see that line, and thus understand its importance

Re: One quantum transition makes light at 21 cm

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you end up with a picture of the record & everything else gets lost - that riddle will still work. Say the civilisation that found it collapses & leaves behind some garbled data, including a picture of the record. Or even future human data archeologists digging through a mix of 20 & 21 century data heavily polluted by AI slop. ;-)

Making the data fault tolerant to the discovery by another civilization, its collapse and later rediscovery by another civilization seems a bit of a stretch goal. :)

It was always a very long shot, regardless of who might be the recipients. Would we have been better off if it had not been done?

Re: One quantum transition makes light at 21 cm

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sarcastically referenced the plaque itself, which is a convenient disc of a known size to anyone observing the drawing, unlike the space craft or physics riddles. Using quantum transitions is quite ridiculous in my opinion due to requiring not only the observer to have a perfectly compatible understanding of physics (even a more advanced understanding might not be compatible - maybe they don't categorize elements b…

If we picked up that plaque from space with an illustration of some aliens and an alien solar system and someone Tweeted it, the correct hypothesis for the numbering would develop plurality consensus within one hour. I don't know if aliens would decode it but it's not right that humans wouldn't decode it.

I highly doubt it, but it might deliver some memorable zingers about nude aliens.

Re: One quantum transition makes light at 21 cm

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sarcastically referenced the plaque itself, which is a convenient disc of a known size to anyone observing the drawing, unlike the space craft or physics riddles. Using quantum transitions is quite ridiculous in my opinion due to requiring not only the observer to have a perfectly compatible understanding of physics (even a more advanced understanding might not be compatible - maybe they don't categorize elements b…

What if you end up with a picture of the record & everything else gets lost - that riddle will still work. Say the civilisation that found it collapses & leaves behind some garbled data, including a picture of the record. Or even future human data archeologists digging through a mix of 20 & 21 century data heavily polluted by AI slop. ;-)

What if extraterrestrial "intelligence" didn't have a reason to "evolve" functional equivalents of a visual cortex. Even on earth where having vision gives a distinct evolutionary advantage over non-vision based living forms, species without vision far outnumber those with vision.

Re: One quantum transition makes light at 21 cm

#159
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It started with the grandfather clock. Everyone's clock pendulum needed to be the same length to have the same length of a second. So a meter also happens to (approximately, this was before we could easily be precise to several decimal places) be the length of pendulum that cycles at 0.5 hz (each swing back and fourth is a second) in 9.8 m/s^2 gravity.

It started with the French. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_metric_system The meter was originally based on the measured dimensions of the Earth.

I think there were multiple competing suggestions at the time, the grandfather clock was one while the standard ended up being the French proposed one that you mention

Re: One quantum transition makes light at 21 cm

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sarcastically referenced the plaque itself, which is a convenient disc of a known size to anyone observing the drawing, unlike the space craft or physics riddles. Using quantum transitions is quite ridiculous in my opinion due to requiring not only the observer to have a perfectly compatible understanding of physics (even a more advanced understanding might not be compatible - maybe they don't categorize elements b…

What if you end up with a picture of the record & everything else gets lost - that riddle will still work. Say the civilisation that found it collapses & leaves behind some garbled data, including a picture of the record. Or even future human data archeologists digging through a mix of 20 & 21 century data heavily polluted by AI slop. ;-)

I really wonder how future archaelogists are ever going to decode our timeline. Imagine a meteor strikes, civilization falls apart, and in 20,000 years they dig up a data centre. Even if they get the computers to work and the hard drives are still readable, everything will be encrypted.
Post reply on HN