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Pope Francis has died

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Re: Pope Francis has died

#151
post #33

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Re: Pope Francis has died

#152
post #13

I wonder whether we will have another Jesuit Pope. Jesuits are supposed to be generally very education focused, more progressive (especially w.r.t science) and stand less on ceremony. I know nothing about how the College of Cardinals work, but if they're anything like other political voting bodies, one of two outcomes are possible: a swing to the Right (and toward tradition), recognizing the current balance of power…

It always seems weird and ignorant for people to be labeling Catholic bishops as “left-wing” or “right-wing” or “liberal/progressive” or “conservative”.

Those are all political terms for politicians and their platforms or parties. They do not translate to Catholic doctrines or teachings. Y’all are simply parroting what the lamestream media wants to impose, a political veneer on non-politicians who are shepherds, pastors, teachers.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#153
In 2021, during a visit to the Greek island of Mytilene, Pope Francis delivered one of the finest speeches I've ever read:

> This great basin of water, the cradle of so many civilizations, now looks like a mirror of death. Let us not let our sea (mare nostrum) be transformed into a desolate sea of death (mare mortuum). Let us not allow this place of encounter to become a theatre of conflict. Let us not permit this “sea of memories” to be transformed into a “sea of forgetfulness”. Please brothers and sisters, let us stop this shipwreck of civilization!

> We are in the age of walls and barbed wire. To be sure, we can appreciate people’s fears and insecurities, the difficulties and dangers involved, and the general sense of fatigue and frustration, exacerbated by the economic and pandemic crises. Yet problems are not resolved and coexistence improved by building walls higher, but by joining forces to care for others according to the concrete possibilities of each and in respect for the law, always giving primacy to the inalienable value of the life of every human being

Worth reading in full https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/speeches/2021/de...

Re: Pope Francis has died

#154

:( And for political side - in Poland, he was seen as way too leftist/liberal for the conservatives in Church, and too pro-Russian for the liberals in it - he had not condemned Russian invasion of Ukraine.

This was a very interesting thing to witness. It seemed to indicate that politics is more powerful than religion, even in a country as religious as Poland. I found this surprising and genuinely thought-provoking.

I had been talking with my conservative colleagues - they were deeply unhappy with him on stance of migration, LGBT issues, or even very recent - his talk with Vance, whom they support (American politics are just so big that it has effect on us even across the ocean).

Then, from religious point of view - they didn't really like his ecumenism approach, to them it was borderline of heresy.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#155

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Re: Pope Francis has died

#156
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the pontifical academy of science has. https://www.pas.va/en.html

Thanks. That looks like a way for Catholics to support and endorse scientific research rather than a develop alternative science.

Ironically, Catholicism as an institution has a better track record of supporting science than many Protestant sects. Much of the "alternative science" comes from the Baptists and Evangelicals.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#157
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From his statement yesterday: > May the principle of humanity never fail to be the hallmark of our daily actions. In the face of the cruelty of conflicts that involve defenceless civilians and attack schools, hospitals and humanitarian workers, we cannot allow ourselves to forget that it is not targets that are struck, but persons, each possessed of a soul and human dignity. Yes. I agree with you and hope so too.

"Think of those souls!" reads to me cynically close to "don't think of those who ordered and executed those strikes". Almost like a deliberate distraction. When you turn forgiveness into a carte blanche for serial sin, you're doing Christianity wrong.

I interpret it very differently from you. Modern warfare is directing drones at 'targets' based on 'intelligence' with little regard for the collateral damage. We see it daily in the news in various conflicts: children killed in strikes with the excuse being that bad guys were also in the vicinity - zero regard for the innocents. It' a reminder that just because you don't have to see the destruction you cause (thanks to modern technology) innocents are still being killed by your actions and you shouldn't forget that (and maybe should reconsider your actions).

Re: Pope Francis has died

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was a very interesting thing to witness. It seemed to indicate that politics is more powerful than religion, even in a country as religious as Poland. I found this surprising and genuinely thought-provoking.

I had been talking with my conservative colleagues - they were deeply unhappy with him on stance of migration, LGBT issues, or even very recent - his talk with Vance, whom they support (American politics are just so big that it has effect on us even across the ocean). Then, from religious point of view - they didn't really like his ecumenism approach, to them it was borderline of heresy.

I was born in, and currently live in Poland. It truly blows my mind that any Polish person could side with a foreign political party that openly sides with moscow over Ukraine and even Poland. Political alignment is truly the strongest drug for many people.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#159
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for posting this. >> Love has triumphed over hatred, light over darkness and truth over falsehood. This is interesting since I thought he was displeased about recent world events (e.g. Trump's election, shift towards deglobalization, ...).

that fragment references Easter theology. at a fundamental level love is stronger than everything, including the unsurpassable frontier, death. nothing could kill Jesus, not slander, not hatred, not envy, not even the cross. and btw, in that little collection of booklets we call the Bible, the story doesn't end all flowery and pink either. Jerusalem and the temple are destroyed, early disciples are martyred in troves…

“It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule.”

— Gandalf

Re: Pope Francis has died

#160

Last year, an interviewer asked Francis how he envisages hell. His response stayed with me: “It’s difficult to imagine it. What I would say is not a dogma of faith, but my personal thought: I like to think hell is empty; I hope it is.”

Nothing from the Bible indicates that hell is empty, so that is indeed an interesting response from the Pope.

Yes - I think it caught my attention because it was such a mystery. It was a welcome thing to hear from one of the most powerful people in the world, but it came like a bolt from the blue. As far as I know, he never revisited the topic.
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