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Black Mirror's pessimism porn won't lead us to a better future

theguardian.com

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Re: Black Mirror's pessimism porn won't lead us to a better future

#151

Post by mcphage »

moduspol wrote: post #68
mickael-kerjean wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine some theoretical technological advancement. Now take it out of context, put it in the worst possible circumstances, and imagine it appeared into a society like ours without any prior thought or discussion about the possible downsides of that technology This is precisely why I love Black Mirror. Despite the warnings, we're allowing companies to build killer robot and are running a large scale experiment to b…

We always have moved forward technologically despite doomers. They were there for first person shooter games, the Internet in general, dating apps, etc. That’s not to say those things didn’t have significant downsides. They do. But it took years to get there and they weren’t an overnight surprise, like they seem to be in the Black Mirror episodes I saw. Imagine what a few Black Mirror episodes would look like if they…

> Imagine what a few Black Mirror episodes would look like if they were made in the 50s or 60s about some technology we have today. It’d be silly.

It might be silly, but that doesn’t mean it would be wrong. We depend heavily on a number of technologies with significant downsides, which are downplayed or ignored or can-kicked into the future.

Re: Black Mirror's pessimism porn won't lead us to a better future

#153

Post by euroderf »

moduspol wrote: post #35
bawolff wrote: post #14

Huh, i guess i both agree and disagree with this article. I disagree that black mirror has to save the world. Art doesn't have to literally save the world to be useful, it just has to add to the conversation. The fact we are talking about it proves that it has. On the other hand, i've never really liked black mirror that much. It feels polemical to me. Its unrelenting pessimism robs it of nuance, which makes it feel…

The part I don't like about it is that the premise is too often: "Imagine some theoretical technological advancement. Now take it out of context, put it in the worst possible circumstances, and imagine it appeared into a society like ours without any prior thought or discussion about the possible downsides of that technology." For example: in a society where autonomous security guard robots kill intruders, there woul…

> Imagine some theoretical technological advancement. Now take it out of context, put it in the worst possible circumstances, and imagine it appeared into a society like ours without any prior thought or discussion about the possible downsides of that technology.

Isn't this the premise for the original Terminator ? Sure it was "unnecessarily" pessimistic, but man oh man it really hit a nerve and it set a tone for (all?) subsequent societal conversation.

Re: Black Mirror's pessimism porn won't lead us to a better future

#154

Post by moduspol »

throw0101d wrote: post #148
moduspol wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The part I don't like about it is that the premise is too often: "Imagine some theoretical technological advancement. Now take it out of context, put it in the worst possible circumstances, and imagine it appeared into a society like ours without any prior thought or discussion about the possible downsides of that technology." For example: in a society where autonomous security guard robots kill intruders, there woul…

> […] and imagine it appeared into a society like ours without any prior thought or discussion about the possible downsides of that technology." Which is basically how most technologies appear{s,ed} in society: without prior thought / discussion. There's certainly a lot of talk while it's being rolled out , but rarely prior . > For example: in a society where autonomous security guard robots kill intruders, there wou…

> Which is basically how most technologies appear{s,ed} in society: without prior thought / discussion.

> There's certainly a lot of talk while it's being rolled out, but rarely prior.

This is a semantic argument about timing. One could argue the Internet is still "being rolled out" today, but it's certainly widely available and we've had decades to reflect on its impact on society. It's not like the Internet was suddenly thrust on 1950s Mississippi and nobody considered that hackers might exist until everyone was on it.

The point is that some of the basic questions posed by the show would have been asked, answered, and accounted-for by society long before they seem to be in the societies depicted in the show.

> People do crime because they think they can get away with it, because if you knew that you'd probably get caught why would you do it in the first place?

It's not a binary decision. Of course you don't do it if you think you will be caught, but the likelihood of being caught and the consequences if you do are also significant factors in the decision.

If people were executed for stealing candy bars from convenience stores, we'd have a lot fewer people stealing, even if we put the same effort into catching them as we do now.

Re: Black Mirror's pessimism porn won't lead us to a better future

#155

Post by jijijijij »

ahoka wrote: post #111
FridgeSeal wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Black Mirror got way less nuanced after Netflix picked it up. “Nosedive” was the most surface-level take of that idea, the “pain chip” episode was basically just shock-value, the “trapped in the weird guys computer simulation” episode was “Whiteout” but derivative. The killer robot bees episode was…an episode of tv I guess? Possibly it’s a format that just inevitably “wears thin” quite quickly, but it did feel like t…

Every episode is just "What if people are forced to wear IoT butt plugs?" or something ridiculous stretched over an episode.

Well, you have to go slow for wider reception.

Re: Black Mirror's pessimism porn won't lead us to a better future

#156

Post by ModernMech »

moduspol wrote: post #35
bawolff wrote: post #14

Huh, i guess i both agree and disagree with this article. I disagree that black mirror has to save the world. Art doesn't have to literally save the world to be useful, it just has to add to the conversation. The fact we are talking about it proves that it has. On the other hand, i've never really liked black mirror that much. It feels polemical to me. Its unrelenting pessimism robs it of nuance, which makes it feel…

The part I don't like about it is that the premise is too often: "Imagine some theoretical technological advancement. Now take it out of context, put it in the worst possible circumstances, and imagine it appeared into a society like ours without any prior thought or discussion about the possible downsides of that technology." For example: in a society where autonomous security guard robots kill intruders, there woul…

"Imagine some theoretical technological advancement. Now take it out of context, put it in the worst possible circumstances, and imagine it appeared into a society like ours without any prior thought or discussion about the possible downsides of that technology.... It just feels ham-fisted."

So like exactly what is happening with driverless car technology.

A technology that was in its infancy in lab settings; taken out of that context and thrust upon our public roads by capricious impulsive billionaires in "beta" form, which has predictably killed people; but instead of pulling back and having a discussion about the possible downsides, this technology is allowed to plague us; because thought or discussion about possible downsides are short circuited by platitudes about how you have to crack eggs to make an omelet.

Can't get a driverless car future free of car deaths without first killing some people with driverless cars, ya know?

Re: Black Mirror's pessimism porn won't lead us to a better future

#157

Post by HelloMcFly »

weregiraffe wrote: post #145
GeoAtreides wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>we don't have a fictional vision of the future to use as a goal. yes we do, it's called The Culture by Iain M Banks. It's a series of books, and it's not easy-web-novels reading, so in the grand scheme of things is pretty niche

Yeah, The Culture, where the real powers are AI. Very niche, just as Yudkowski...

Optimistic scifi properties:

* The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet by Becky Chambers (+ sequels)

* Monk & Robot by Becky Chambers (+ sequel)

* Most of, but not all of, Star Trek. This is getting infected with cynicism in some places, but still largely optimistic about a utopian future.

* The Martian by Andy Weir

* For All Mankind on Apple TV+

* Arrival movie

That's what I can think of since the 90s. Doubt it's a complete list, but really Becky Chambers is the optimistic voice in the domain, primarily since she focuses her works on interpersonal vs. galactic or societal dynamics.

Re: Black Mirror's pessimism porn won't lead us to a better future

#158

Post by [deleted] »

moduspol wrote: post #35
bawolff wrote: post #14

Huh, i guess i both agree and disagree with this article. I disagree that black mirror has to save the world. Art doesn't have to literally save the world to be useful, it just has to add to the conversation. The fact we are talking about it proves that it has. On the other hand, i've never really liked black mirror that much. It feels polemical to me. Its unrelenting pessimism robs it of nuance, which makes it feel…

The part I don't like about it is that the premise is too often: "Imagine some theoretical technological advancement. Now take it out of context, put it in the worst possible circumstances, and imagine it appeared into a society like ours without any prior thought or discussion about the possible downsides of that technology." For example: in a society where autonomous security guard robots kill intruders, there woul…

[deleted]

Re: Black Mirror's pessimism porn won't lead us to a better future

#159

Post by tim333 »

I don't think Black Mirror is supposed on it's own to lead us to a better future. It's list of things that could go wrong maybe counter the Sam Altman like tech boosters.

I can't help feeling

>Biotechnology like GMOs and mRNA offered existential hope, rather than risk.

rather skips over the fact that the whole pandemic was probably set off by a lab screw up illustrating the value of warning about such things.

Re: Black Mirror's pessimism porn won't lead us to a better future

#160

Post by [deleted] »

moduspol wrote: post #68
mickael-kerjean wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine some theoretical technological advancement. Now take it out of context, put it in the worst possible circumstances, and imagine it appeared into a society like ours without any prior thought or discussion about the possible downsides of that technology This is precisely why I love Black Mirror. Despite the warnings, we're allowing companies to build killer robot and are running a large scale experiment to b…

We always have moved forward technologically despite doomers. They were there for first person shooter games, the Internet in general, dating apps, etc. That’s not to say those things didn’t have significant downsides. They do. But it took years to get there and they weren’t an overnight surprise, like they seem to be in the Black Mirror episodes I saw. Imagine what a few Black Mirror episodes would look like if they…

[deleted]
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