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Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

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Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#151

Post by ghaff »

steele wrote: post #28
ivanmontillam wrote: post #7

One of the sentences at the very start caught my eye: > I thought to myself: why is there so little actionable advice out there about negotiation? There's a wealth of actionable negotiation advice if you know where to look, like Harvard Business Review and Harvard Law, First Round Review, among others. One of the big pieces on negotiation I got from Harvard[0], from their Program on Negotiation. I did not attend Harv…

Getting to Yes and Bargaining for Advantage are also good reads related to this topic

Getting to Yes is a good very short book that has some gems in it. We used it in some business school class or other I took.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#152

Post by angra_mainyu »

reset0684 wrote: post #42
neilv wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, that was a confusing choice of term by me, when the article already used the term "rule". I mean the courtship dynamics. When it's a buyer's market -- or the buyers think it is -- some of the candidate tactics are going to play differently. Even the old advice that, once the company decides they want you, that changes the dynamics, and now opens up negotiation. The dynamics maybe don't change as much as they u…

Midwest, not Silicon Valley, but that's my current experience. I've already got a job and just got an offer which would be a small pay cut. So, I told them I'm excited about the work, etc but I just can't take a pay cut. They remained firm that they couldn't budge on salary even a little. Then remained firm as I asked for a signing bonus (denied) and reduced hours (denied). This company doesn't do stock at all and th…

Can agree that right now the market is tough.

Some years ago there were job posts left and right, salaries were high and hiring was smooth - now there are comparatively fewer jobs posted, salaries are almost half of what it was before, and many don't even write back.

Many companies are even turning away from remote work. It used to be very doable to find a job in the US from Europe, now everyone is demanding you have work authorization and can be in the US.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#153

Post by ghaff »

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #86
Seattle3503 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I rolled my eyes at that, but publishers basically require the front 10% of non-fiction be like that. It's for the people walking through book stores and picking up books to browse.

Thats why we need disruption in the books publishing industry

You have it. You can self-publish.

Publishers are not actually idiots. By and large, they know what sells.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#154

Post by Pooge »

For a company I've interviewed with, I've been asked twice a salary range and declined both times. I was even transparent for the 2nd time (which happened months later) and answered that it's not in my interest to give a number first.

Well, I received an offer from them and I would have undercut myself by 30%.

This is perhaps—or perhaps not—an extreme example, but I only applied what I was told in the negotiation articles and books I've read.

When you read a book, you're going to think "It's just fantasy; no way this is going to happen to me" but if you actually apply that knowledge it can truly work in your favor.

I also declined an offer 2 months beforehand because the salary was ridiculously low, despite being unemployed at the time.

Want is fine, need is not.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#155

Post by ghaff »

palata wrote: post #48

I looked for resources a few years ago and found a post by a software engineer talking about "Fearless Salary Negotiation" [1]. The engineer said: "it's a small book, cost me around 40 bucks which were immediately compensated by the fact that I managed to negotiate a higher salary". I wanted to ask for a raise: I had been working in that startup for 4 years and had never had a raise. I thought "if that book helps me…

One lesson is that you have to be willing to walk away. Doesn't mean you can't negotiate at all otherwise. But you're in the strongest position when you legitimately can go "take it or leave it" if it comes to that.

And you also don't want to throw away a great opportunity because you didn't wring every last dollar out of it.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#156

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

msteffen wrote: post #129
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #117

> A company’s goal is to hire someone who will become an effective employee and produce more value than their cost. This isn't true. They have no clue how to measure your value output. A company's goal is to make sure it has the staff to get its work done so it can sell its thing. A hiring manager's goal is to find someone to do the thing they don't have time/staff for. They will pay somewhere in the realm of whateve…

Yes! I wrote my own response, but your post made me realize the most important piece of missing advice: if you want a great offer, interview at a company with lots and lots of money

Generally speaking, yes, companies with more money can pay more. But there's plenty of companies with lots of money, yet their teams have no budget. And it depends if you came in through a recruiter or not, or are a contractor or not, or if it's a startup throwing around cash or being thrifty. Start by applying to the ones that list a high range, and then the companies with lots of money, and then the rest.

I've found that if they're a startup based out of a high-income city, they're most likely to throw money at you. Larger companies based out of high-income cities have to be more stingy and will limit based on your location, but you can push for more. A corporate hiring structure will often enforce salary caps based on title, so if you ask for too much, they may have to invent a new title for you and get it justified to their executive leadership, which is politically fraught. So if you get to the top of the salary band, don't push hard, or they will be in a corner and have to choose between you (a near-impossible candidate) and a candidate they can actually hire.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#157

Post by jaggederest »

dockerd wrote: post #142
jaggederest wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simple thing I tell people to do who are uncomfortable with more complex negotiation is, just before you're about to accept the offer, just ask if they can increase it any. Just straight up say "Is there any room to increase this offer?" If they say no, just accept it. If not, let them increase it, then accept that increased offer. I've gotten an increase at a significant majority of companies doing this and it's…

How many different companies have you worked for?

Close to 20 now I believe all time.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#158

Post by [deleted] »

neilv wrote: post #32

> Rule #5 of negotiation: don’t be the decision-maker. Even if you don’t particularly care what your friends/family/husband/mother thinks, by mentioning them, you’re no longer the only person the recruiter needs to win over. There’s no point in them trying to bully and intimidate you; the “true decision-maker” is beyond their reach. It's a very old thing in general, not just in job-hunting. And sometimes "I have to d…

[deleted]

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#159

Post by the_gipsy »

palata wrote: post #48

I looked for resources a few years ago and found a post by a software engineer talking about "Fearless Salary Negotiation" [1]. The engineer said: "it's a small book, cost me around 40 bucks which were immediately compensated by the fact that I managed to negotiate a higher salary". I wanted to ask for a raise: I had been working in that startup for 4 years and had never had a raise. I thought "if that book helps me…

Just understanding how negotiations work removes the frustration.

I read a book about negotiating. It had the usual breakdown of strategies, tactics and scenarios, and a lot of filler, but it was entertaining to read. Today I'm still not a good negotiator. Normally I just don't want to waste my time and just want to get something, or I don't want to "squeeze" the other side for little profit.

But I know that on big key deals, like buying a house, a car, or getting a job, there it is well worth to apply some pressure. And if I don't get to my goal, or if a deal fails, now I understand why and don't feel so much frustration as before.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#160

Post by nmd »

neilv wrote: post #2

Dated 2016. I think the 2025 rules will be different, for most US tech job-seekers.

I just went through the job hunting (labour selling!) process for a tech role in a HCOL city in US and every point in the article matched with my experience. As another commenter mentioned, the difference is these days you have bands on job listings and then levels.fyi and blind (for larger tech companies) balances out some of the information asymmetry.
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