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The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

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Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#151

Post by UncleMeat »

transcriptase wrote: post #61
8note wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so they could use it as an eternal campaign issue clarification - its the republicans that used it as a campaign issue. the dems just assumed it was settled law

“Assumed it was settled law”, despite RBG herself at the time saying what amounted to “this is a flimsy interpretation that will likely be overturned, but we’re going to make it anyway and the government should codify it into law rather than relying on us legislating from the bench”. Spoiler: No democratic president/congress ever bothered to, and it was rightfully (in a legal, not moral sense) overturned just as she…

RBG had more power than almost anybody else on the planet to protect Roe by retiring when the dems had the ability to confirm a replacement. She chose not to. Frankly, I don't think she's the best source of wisdom for practical politicking around protecting abortion rights.

Do you really think that federal abortion protections would stand up to this court? They aren't even able to stand behind EMTALA protecting abortions when it is essential for the health of the pregnant woman. There is absolutely no way that federal legislation protecting abortion up to viability would resist conservative challenge in the courts given the supreme court's current makeup.

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#152

Post by UncleMeat »

sanktanglia wrote: post #130
transcriptase wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Assumed it was settled law”, despite RBG herself at the time saying what amounted to “this is a flimsy interpretation that will likely be overturned, but we’re going to make it anyway and the government should codify it into law rather than relying on us legislating from the bench”. Spoiler: No democratic president/congress ever bothered to, and it was rightfully (in a legal, not moral sense) overturned just as she…

Please show me when there were 60 senators who would support this. Oh that's right at no point did that exist. Obama barely had 60 for Obamacare and that includes multiple people who would never vote for abortion. So your spoiler is quite divorced from reality

Even if there ever was a coalition of 60 pro-choice senators, it wouldn't matter. Federal abortion protections would need to be passed under the commerce clause and would obviously be challenged and struck down by the 6-3 court. Even EMTALA, which ties federal funding for hospitals to a requirement that hospitals provide abortion care for pregnant people when a pregnancy is a serious threat to their health, is being challenged in court (and successfully blocked in the 5th circuit). The challenge would be even easier for the right if there's no connection to serious threats to the health of the pregnant woman.

All of these "you should have ignored the courts and focused on legislation" arguments aren't based in a lick of reality.

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#153

Post by UncleMeat »

gotoeleven wrote: post #95
hayst4ck wrote: post #11

I don't think many people have actually contemplated what absence of law, defined as rules that apply to rich and powerful people too, is like. In a world with law, there are restriction on what society's most powerful can and can't do, because there are police officers, detectives, lawyers, and judges, who all work together to make sure there are consequences for crimes. In a world without law, the only restriction…

[flagged]

"The situation is bad so all rights can just be completely eliminated" is not actually a tenable position. "We had to do a fascism because of Biden" is not real. It is a choice. One that you need to own.

If the rule is "people we claim are illegal immigrants can be sent to a Salvadoran gulag for the rest of their lives without process and even if we admit we made a mistake with somebody we cannot bring them back" then this means that literally anybody can be sent there. The government just picks me up off the street, claims that I'm an illegal immigrant even though I am a citizen, puts me a on a plane, and then no law or court can save me from spending the rest of my life in hell.

What a system.

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#154

Post by UncleMeat »

rayiner wrote: post #49

The homicide rate in El Salvador has dropped from 100 per 100,000 to 2.5 per 100,000 in just a decade: https://www.statista.com/statistics/696152/homicide-rate-in-... . The El Salvadoran government has literally brought the country to an entirely different level of development, vastly improving the lives of most of the country’s 6 million people. Disorder and dysfunction doesn’t just hurt those who are killed. It’s a…

It is indeed rather easy to reduce homicide rates through mass violation of rights. We'd have much less crime if the government just shot every male under the age of 30 whose income is lower than some threshold. But that wouldn't exactly be a good system.

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#155

Post by afpx »

hayst4ck wrote: post #97
ixtli wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with Americans is that they believe themselves to be temporarily embarrassed millionaires. In its original context we find this a funny if depressing cliche but when applied to our current context I think it explains in a very dark way why no one does anything and collective defense never forms.

That's too simple and unsympathetic which only serves to divide. They don't literally see themselves that way. That's a liberal pejorative of their belief system. There is (or was) a strong culture of self reliance, which is born out of a concept of freedom being focused around "freedom from" rather than "freedom to." They see a billionaire's freedom being taken away and worry that if it can happen to someone that po…

What are people proposing as the solutions? If you tax their wealth, they just move the wealth elsewhere, right?

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#156

Post by rayiner »

tastyface wrote: post #122
rayiner wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You have no idea what my origins are. And I'm not sure why you're so furiously and emotionally defending this dictator all over this thread. I wonder if you've even read the article? Maybe take a few minutes and see if it changes how you feel.

I’m defending him because I’m realizing how deeply third world countries are suffering from the influence of empathetic individualists like you having so much power in the western world.

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#157

Post by IncreasePosts »

elihu wrote: post #133

I came across this article[1] the other day, after reading about the US sending people to a prison in El Salvador and wondering what we actually know about the place. An incongruity that I didn't notice at the time but realized a bit later is that the prison is called "The Center for Terrorism Confinement" and it has a capacity of 40,000 people. Why would El Salvador or any country need a terrorist detention facility…

The drug cartels are viewed as terroristic activity, so yes, there are a lot of terrorists in El salvador by that perspective. Shouldn't be too surprising when cartels commit outrageous acts like the Mejicanos massacre

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#158

Post by codemonkey-zeta »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #157
elihu wrote: post #133

I came across this article[1] the other day, after reading about the US sending people to a prison in El Salvador and wondering what we actually know about the place. An incongruity that I didn't notice at the time but realized a bit later is that the prison is called "The Center for Terrorism Confinement" and it has a capacity of 40,000 people. Why would El Salvador or any country need a terrorist detention facility…

The drug cartels are viewed as terroristic activity, so yes, there are a lot of terrorists in El salvador by that perspective. Shouldn't be too surprising when cartels commit outrageous acts like the Mejicanos massacre

Yeah anyone criticizing the mass incarceration in El Salvador as unjust should really familiarize themselves with the crimes of the gangs down there. The obliteration of a social scourge in a single presidency was nothing short of miraculous. That's why Bukele was re-elected at the highest levels in history - his people genuinely love him for it. The right to a fair trial is great in places that have law and order, but when you witness beheadings, mass executions, torture, etc. daily, you won't miss that right at all.

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#159

Post by [deleted] »

codemonkey-zeta wrote: post #158
IncreasePosts wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The drug cartels are viewed as terroristic activity, so yes, there are a lot of terrorists in El salvador by that perspective. Shouldn't be too surprising when cartels commit outrageous acts like the Mejicanos massacre

Yeah anyone criticizing the mass incarceration in El Salvador as unjust should really familiarize themselves with the crimes of the gangs down there. The obliteration of a social scourge in a single presidency was nothing short of miraculous. That's why Bukele was re-elected at the highest levels in history - his people genuinely love him for it. The right to a fair trial is great in places that have law and order, b…

[deleted]
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