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Trump's Trade War Escalates as China Retaliates with 34% Tariffs

nytimes.com

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Re: Trump's Trade War Escalates as China Retaliates with 34% Tariffs

#151

Post by bitshiftfaced »

surgical_fire wrote: post #149
bitshiftfaced wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the US is consistent with the tariff policy that they've laid out, then I'd expect the opposite to happen. If China increases their tariffs and as a result increases their trade surplus, then that means that the US's tariffs go up as they are a function of the US's trade deficit.

Nobody is increasing anything. When China applies tariffs against the US, the result is that China imports the goods it needs from other countries. For example, now that US soy is prohibitively expensive for Chinese importers, they can buy from Brazil (who China is not applying the same tariffs against). In the case of the US, the US importers cannot switch to anyone else, since it decided to go full trade war agains…

I'm not following. If China buys soy from Brazil instead of the US, and the US imports the same amount overall from China in either case, then doesn't that increase China's trade surplus with the US?

Re: Trump's Trade War Escalates as China Retaliates with 34% Tariffs

#152

Post by mppm »

bathtub365 wrote: post #145
mppm wrote: post #136

One thing that I'd like to inject into this discussion, is that the nominal trade imbalance is not the only relevant figure, and maybe not the most important one. For many goods, there is a very strong disconnect between the market value (the lowest price you can offer a group of suppliers competing against each other) and what one might call, for lack of a better word, true value (the price you'd be willing to pay i…

I’m not sure what you mean by “the West” in this context. No one besides the US are unilaterally raising tariffs on China. The US stands alone in this and the rest of us are fine to keep trading with China while whatever agenda is being pursued by the US regime.

I'm just making a general point, since the trade between China and the EU is qualitatively similar to China-US. And while the EU is anti-Trump at the moment, I do not think it is beyond aggressive economic action against China for political reasons, if nothing else. (And let's not forget about the new tariffs on Chinese electric cars).

Re: Trump's Trade War Escalates as China Retaliates with 34% Tariffs

#153

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

blooalien wrote: post #125
hello_moto wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And billionaires are still going to be rich. I hope one day USA wakes up and realize the solution is wealth tax to these billionaires

> I hope one day USA wakes up and realize the solution is wealth tax to these billionaires That only works if everyone everywhere does it all at the same time, so they've nowhere to move to/hide.

Sounds to me like it's best to start taxing billionaires and hope that other places follow suit.

Re: Trump's Trade War Escalates as China Retaliates with 34% Tariffs

#154

Post by mtalantikite »

makingstuffs wrote: post #133
hubraumhugo wrote: post #11

Pharma products were previously tariff-free under a WTO agreement that is based on the principle that life-saving items shouldn't face any tariffs. Looks like this exemption is now also being eliminated and will probably cause the prices of drugs and treatments in the USA to skyrocket.

Wait, they can go up more!? I remember thinking prices for really basic medication in the States was insanely expensive — something which costs $0.50 in Europe would cost $3+ in Target n co

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Re: Trump's Trade War Escalates as China Retaliates with 34% Tariffs

#155

Post by 3vidence »

alephnerd wrote: post #7
akmarinov wrote: post #5

Wonder whether Americans or the Chinese can weather tough times better. Chinese don’t get to protest or voice dissent and Americans can’t be bothered to

It will suck on both sides, but the majority of American households can weather a $2-4k blow over the next year as supply chains react. Congress stepping in to exclude Canada and Mexico and the NAFTA exemption cushions the blow significantly. Most of Latin America being placed at the lower end of the announcement means manufacturers who used to be competitive until China Shock set around 2014-16 can be cost competiti…

Feels like peak HN to just say all Americans can weather extra thousands per year...

Re: Trump's Trade War Escalates as China Retaliates with 34% Tariffs

#156

Post by s1artibartfast »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #30
alephnerd wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will suck on both sides, but the majority of American households can weather a $2-4k blow over the next year as supply chains react. Congress stepping in to exclude Canada and Mexico and the NAFTA exemption cushions the blow significantly. Most of Latin America being placed at the lower end of the announcement means manufacturers who used to be competitive until China Shock set around 2014-16 can be cost competiti…

Half of Americans say they live paycheck to paycheck, so no - the majority of households will not be able to survive for long if they have to spend an extra few thousand to stay where they are today. Those that can will be cutting spending, which will ripple across the rest of the economy. There's no sign that negotiation is even possible, never mind likely. One tell is that tariffs have been applied to the Heard and…

>Half of Americans say they live paycheck to paycheck, so no - the majority of households will not be able to survive for long if they have to spend an extra few thousand to stay where they are today

What do you think the death toll will be? A majority of households not surviving would put it over 160 million.

$4k per capita (not household) loss would put the US in 2022 territory [1].

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/A939RX0Q048SBEA

Re: Trump's Trade War Escalates as China Retaliates with 34% Tariffs

#157

Post by actsasbuffoon »

djha-skin wrote: post #35

I'm kinda happy about this. Our farmers in Utah lobby so hard for water, then use it to grow alfalfa which they sell to China because they can sell it there for more money than it can be sold locally. It boils my circuits that they ask for our precious water -- to which they have historically had an obvious right, growing our food -- and then basically ship it overseas. Keep the crops at least sold in the US, and hop…

It’s a fair point, but I feel like we could take more targeted action on alfalfa without the side effects of the current policies. It feels a bit like celebrating your house burning down because you didn’t like the color of paint in the kitchen.

Re: Trump's Trade War Escalates as China Retaliates with 34% Tariffs

#158

Post by chneu »

mtalantikite wrote: post #154
makingstuffs wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, they can go up more!? I remember thinking prices for really basic medication in the States was insanely expensive — something which costs $0.50 in Europe would cost $3+ in Target n co

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Re: Trump's Trade War Escalates as China Retaliates with 34% Tariffs

#159

Post by stoneman24 »

krapp wrote: post #18
apawloski wrote: post #13

Just yesterday people were trying to convince me that price hikes were good and would benefit Trump’s base. Now JP Morgan is predicting a global recession. I cannot fathom how this is good for America. It just feels like a colossal own-goal that will weaken America on the global scale. Americans will suffer in a recession. And it was by choice that this administration put us here. Is there any recourse?

>Is there any recourse? Nope. The avalanche has begun, it's too late for the pebbles to regret their vote.

Thanks for the great B5 quote.

The vast majority of us are just minor pebbles in trump’s grand experiment, just trying to find a quiet place to avoid all the noise and nightmares.

The SV mantra of “Move fast and break things” is not something that you really should apply to entire economic systems.

Someone will probably profit but it’s not going to be the average American citizen ( or citizen of any other country)

Re: Trump's Trade War Escalates as China Retaliates with 34% Tariffs

#160

Post by hello_moto »

blooalien wrote: post #125
hello_moto wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And billionaires are still going to be rich. I hope one day USA wakes up and realize the solution is wealth tax to these billionaires

> I hope one day USA wakes up and realize the solution is wealth tax to these billionaires That only works if everyone everywhere does it all at the same time, so they've nowhere to move to/hide.

They can’t bring their assets that are tied to US without divesting and got dinged once.
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