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Tech companies are telling immigrant employees on visas not to leave the U.S.

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Tech companies are telling immigrant employees on visas not to leave the U.S.

#151

Post by lurk2 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #146
lurk2 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That the administration thinks they just just drag people into vans and ship them off to a foreign prison? Can you point to a specific instance where this has occurred, and what laws you believe were broken? I'm not qualified to say if the El Salvador detention facilities are legal or not, but my understanding is that ICE has always had the authority to arrest illegal immigrants, and that a potential penalty for il…

> Can you point to a specific instance where this has occurred, All of the removals to El Salvador (before those were halted by judicial order) premised on the improper invocation (because there has been no invasion of the US by a foreign state) of the Alien Enemies Act, who had neither deportation hearings nor criminal trials. > and what laws you believe were broken? The 1st (because the actual basis was often prote…

> The 1st (because the actual basis was often protected speech unrelated to the asserted premise of removal)

This sounds like you are talking about the students who were detained and deported. Were any of them sent to El Salvador? My understanding is that they had their student visas revoked on the basis of 8 USC 1182(a)(3)(C)(i):

> An alien whose presence or activities in the United States the Secretary of State has reasonable ground to believe would have potentially serious adverse foreign policy consequences for the United States is deportable.

I don't know the specifics of the cases pertaining to the students, but from a plain reading this doesn't seem altogether unreasonable. I think it's obvious that this is being done at the behest of Israel, but it doesn't seem explicitly illegal.

> 5th (because of denial of due process) [...] 8th (because of conditions in the prison where they are sent) [...] and 13th (because the prison involves involuntary servitude, and they were condemned to it without a criminal conviction)

I couldn't find clarification as to what section of the prison the deportees are being held in. I understand that the prison is set up such that lower-level offenders are required to work or study almost every waking hour of the day, whereas gang members are segregated and not permitted to leave their cells at all. The key issue here seems to be due process, which is in turn dependent on a court ruling on the application of the Alien Sedition acts being improper.

Re: Tech companies are telling immigrant employees on visas not to leave the U.S.

#152

Post by ok_dad »

lurk2 wrote: post #143
Yeul wrote: post #17

Funny thing is that getting a visa for China is now more seemless than it has ever been and they love my euros.

China detained two Canadians for almost three years in retaliation for Canada cooperating on a US warrant for Meng Wanzhou. They can make you disappear in the way that people in this thread are pretending the Americans can. It is not safe to travel there.

You mean like how the CIA flew around doing “extraordinary rendition” during the turn of the millennium? Yea, that’s a shitty thing to do, hopefully all the people of the world can get better governments.

Re: Tech companies are telling immigrant employees on visas not to leave the U.S.

#153

Post by BrenBarn »

em-bee wrote: post #130
BrenBarn wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to think that, unfortunately, it's the other way around. What we need to teach the next generation is that good faith, while still to be treasured, cannot be relied on, and we must be prepared to unflinchingly root out bad actors and forcibly prevent them from making things worse for people.

rooting out bad actors is most effectively done by proper education to keep them from becoming bad actors in the first place. any other approach in rooting out bad actors risks judgement errors and should only be applied in the most egregious of cases. and even there the approach should be: "look, you may mean well, but your actions hurt to many people, and therefore we must reject your approach and tell you to stop"

> rooting out bad actors is most effectively done by proper education to keep them from becoming bad actors in the first place.

But that's not rooting out bad actors, it's preventing bad actors. The problem with betting the farm on education is that bad actors who already exist will sabotage your efforts in order to lock in their gains. There has to be some plan for actually neutralizing the people who have already become bad actors and can't be "fixed" with education.

Re: Tech companies are telling immigrant employees on visas not to leave the U.S.

#154

Post by piva00 »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #147
em-bee wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think this is a key point, and this is why this problem will remain until we make some drastic changes. to look at a completely different example: the internet was designed on good faith. year after year more things have been put into place to protect against those not operating in good faith. proof of work against AI bots is just the latest example. what is really needed is a change in education. we need to teach…

>what is really needed is a change in education. we need to teach the next generation that operating in good faith is absolutely essential for the future of mankind. How can mankind have any future at all, when education is one of the tools used to indoctrinate children into not wanting children of their own someday? The first priority of any society/civilization must always be that of making the next generation of p…

> How can mankind have any future at all, when education is one of the tools used to indoctrinate children into not wanting children of their own someday? The first priority of any society/civilization must always be that of making the next generation of people... or else that society/civilization will soon cease to exist. And we no longer hold that as a priority. Whatever the solution might be, I do not think that it can use the education system, in whole or in part, without serious reform of the sort that would frighten those who most want to use it.

Education is in no way indoctrinating children into not wanting children.

You are conflating education with the current economical system, which uses education to have a trained workforce to generate value for companies. It's this system that is pushing people to not want kids, when kids are expensive in terms of time and money, where people work under a system that attempts to extract as much time as possible for production, it's just natural people won't be feeling any higher drive to have kids of their own.

You are blaming education while the issue is much more pervasive and systemic, we live in a world of abundant goods but precarious labour, we produce a lot but don't feel safe nor relaxed enough to tackle one of the most stressful events in someone's life.

Just look at workaholic societies like South Korea and Japan, societal pressures around earning money to support a family, showing status about your job, keeping a career as a mom, etc. eventually completely remove any desire to start families.

Re: Tech companies are telling immigrant employees on visas not to leave the U.S.

#155

Post by BrenBarn »

watwut wrote: post #134
MPSFounder wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The truth is much of it could have been prevented (court packing was one idea that might have been unpopular, but there are many other ideas that could have been acted upon). We live with consequences of failures of the Democratic party for the last decade. Had Ruth Ginsberg been pressured to retire after her numerous health issues, Roe v Wade would never have been overturned (it was a 1 vote swing). Had primaries oc…

I love how your analysis does not blame the perpetrators. And I think this is pervasive and one of root problems - Republicans and conservatives are not blamed for own lies nor plans nor decisions. Instead, democrats are blamed for what Republicans do. Yes, democrats should have been harder on republicans. But again, the same double standards would cause them to be blamed for "gaming the system".

I absolutely would not blame Democrats for gaming the system (as long as they did it in the service of the right goals). At this point it's really just a choice between gaming the system or destroying it.

Re: Tech companies are telling immigrant employees on visas not to leave the U.S.

#156

Post by wruza »

watwut wrote: post #139
wruza wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yeah it does change thing things whether your rhetoric involves "eliminating white race" fear and threat of Jewish. Person you responded to found out his relatives are full on nazi. That is what it means. And that means violence, intentional cruelty and loss of freedom for those around.

I see the reasoning. But assuming that the cultural threat is real for them, how would you state this problem without being a nazi? Is this possible in your "set of axioms"?

Re: Tech companies are telling immigrant employees on visas not to leave the U.S.

#157

Post by ffsm8 »

lurk2 wrote: post #143
Yeul wrote: post #17

Funny thing is that getting a visa for China is now more seemless than it has ever been and they love my euros.

China detained two Canadians for almost three years in retaliation for Canada cooperating on a US warrant for Meng Wanzhou. They can make you disappear in the way that people in this thread are pretending the Americans can. It is not safe to travel there.

> pretending the Americans can

Pretending?

Dude, there are super public and well covered cases were the US did not only that but even worse, i.e. MEGAs illegal CEO abduction from their home soil in the 2010s for a particularly egregious example

Re: Tech companies are telling immigrant employees on visas not to leave the U.S.

#158

Post by watwut »

wruza wrote: post #156
watwut wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it does change thing things whether your rhetoric involves "eliminating white race" fear and threat of Jewish. Person you responded to found out his relatives are full on nazi. That is what it means. And that means violence, intentional cruelty and loss of freedom for those around.

I see the reasoning. But assuming that the cultural threat is real for them, how would you state this problem without being a nazi? Is this possible in your "set of axioms"?

"Cultural threat" is not correct descriptor of "elimination of white race". They were talking about race war, you are trying to find words that make it non fascist. So, you will need to be precise about what your euphemism of "real cultural threat" means. If it means that they perceive Jews as the reason for "elimination of white race" as they said, then it is just being Nazi with all the logical consequences.

Some people are Nazi and that is that. The eternal wish to reframe far right nazi as something else and non-threatening regardless of what these people do, say or push for amounts to lying to oneself.

Re: Tech companies are telling immigrant employees on visas not to leave the U.S.

#159

Post by chneu »

mlinhares wrote: post #110
salawat wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems but isn't due to the way taxation/jurisdiction/licensure works. Where you are doing your work from and where the benefactor of that work are make a big difference. Example: Doctors can't telehealth over State lines. Lawyers likewise. Employers aren't supposed to allow migrant workers to work from across state lines from their address of record. A great deal of draconian control is actually implemented through e…

Doctors can definitely telehealth through state lines, they only need to get license approval from the specific states.

I believe it depends on the state. I'm not positive but my therapist friends can only operate in certain states remotely.

Re: Tech companies are telling immigrant employees on visas not to leave the U.S.

#160

Post by wruza »

watwut wrote: post #158
wruza wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see the reasoning. But assuming that the cultural threat is real for them, how would you state this problem without being a nazi? Is this possible in your "set of axioms"?

"Cultural threat" is not correct descriptor of "elimination of white race". They were talking about race war, you are trying to find words that make it non fascist. So, you will need to be precise about what your euphemism of "real cultural threat" means. If it means that they perceive Jews as the reason for "elimination of white race" as they said, then it is just being Nazi with all the logical consequences. Some p…

I guess I got the answer then.
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