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Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

bbc.com

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Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#151

Post by slibhb »

freehorse wrote: post #123

This is one of these US-specific polarised debates I find really bizarre, around some kind of issue that the rest of the world has by large solved but without any acknowledgement of this fact. Maybe the US should look into how other countries have solved it? It is completely bizarre witnessing both sides getting so polarised around a basically non-issue.

How has the debate been solved by the rest of the world? My understanding is that many countries in Europe don't fluoridate the water supply.

I'm skeptical of results showing IQ loss but I also think fluoridation should be phased out as fluoride toothpaste and mouthwash are now widely available. Banning it seems like the wrong move to me...states should simply decide to continue adding it or not.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#153

Post by lolinder »

ics wrote: post #67
lolinder wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is one of those places where because RFK Jr took the anti- stand there's an understandable assumption that it's more nutty anti-science stuff, but it's much less clear cut when it comes to fluoridation. Europe has much lower rates than the US, which is an outlier on these stats only approached by Australia, and before Utah the major high profile anti-fluoride stance was made by Portland: https://www.wweek.…

Using certain family members as a personal rubric, fluoridated water has been a right-left issue for at least 2.5 decades. I think it’s been pretty polarized for longer, though it may have taken a long time to gain steam in mainstream “discourse”.

I'm not sure you can use personal anecdotes to come to any conclusions about broad trends. To look at some actual data, I took the 2008 and 2024 election results and compared them with fluoridation rates. The split is pretty even:

The top 10 most fluoridated states went 5/5 Rep/Dem in 2008 and 6/4 Rep/Dem in 2024. These were Kentucky, Minnesota, Illinois, North Dakota, Virginia, Georgia, South Dakota, Maryland, Ohio, and South Carolina. Hardly a blue wall.

The bottom 10 least fluoridated states with 6/4 Rep/Dem in 2008 and 6/4 Rep/Dem in 2024. These were Hawaii, New Jersey, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Louisiana, Alaska, Utah, New Hampshire, and Mississippi. Hardly a red wall.

The bottom three least fluoridated states are all hardcore blue: Hawaii, New Jersey, and Oregon.

I just don't see any evidence here that this has been a left-right polarized issue until this year. The distribution of fluoride by political leanings is just too random.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#155

Post by bennettnate5 »

tayo42 wrote: post #90
poisonarena wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is Utah cutting school support and social services?

Is there a reason to expect this republican to hold views that differ significantly from the rest of the party?

Fun anecdote: Utah's Republicans actually rejected the MAGA candidates in the Republican primary for both Senator and Governer by a wide margin, despite the MAGA candidates having Trump's endorsement. If nothing else, Utah doesn't vote MAGA-or-bust like some other states have been.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#157

Post by [deleted] »

jiggawatts wrote: post #44

I initially dismissed it as the same category of stupid as anti-vax beliefs, but it turns out that there are a decent amount of good studies showing a link between fluoride in water and (slightly) lower IQ when pregnant mothers ingest the fluoride. Note that there is no significant effect after birth. The idea is to remove fluoride from water and advise pregnant women to use fluoride-free toothpaste. Everyone else ca…

[deleted]

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#158

Post by missingcolours »

bruckie wrote: post #101
timeon wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 20% tips Is this real?

Yes, it's pretty common. It's also common for businesses where customers tip to underpay their employees on the expectation that they'll make it up with tips. It's legal to do this in many jurisdictions. As an American, I wish we didn't do this, but it's a collective action problem that's very hard to solve.

What exactly is the definition of "underpay" here? Back when my wife was a server, it seemed like a cheat code to the service industry - she was making way more money waiting tables for $2.65/hr + tips than she had made at any other job she'd had (something like $18-20/hr 15 years ago)

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#159

Post by Jimmc414 »

ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 wrote: post #60
Jimmc414 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it matter how the list was compiled? Is the information accurate or not? The first link you referenced with the cherry picked sentence about uncertainty for levels below .7mg/l was a meta analysis of 74 different studies, 64 of which showed a negative correlation between child IQ and fluoridation. This isn’t even taking into account evidence of a positive correlation for early onset puberty, sleep disruption…

It matters when you say it has the "most convincing" evidence as if you have read them all and are keeping up with the field and didn't just summarize them with some service like https://consensus.app/ I don't know if what you are repeating is slop, etc. I can't trust the source. A single recent systematic review is more trustworthy than that.

You don't know, but it is not. Feel free not to read it.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#160

Post by afthonos »

Jimmc414 wrote: post #103
culi wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IQ link is very heavily lacking in evidence. In the actual research the main "risk" posed by flouridated water is actually fluorosis. This causes minerals in your enamel to be replaced with flouride which can cause them to be brittle in the long term. It's pretty uncommon but the thought is that now that flouride toothpaste are commonplace, the benefit of flouridated water is also way less. Which changes the calc…

[flagged]

There isn’t any! GP doesn’t have that authority! Well done!

On the other hand, the society you live in probably has some sort of document establishing who does have the authority, and how it devolves to the actual policy-makers. Google “$YOUR_LOCATION government” and you’ll have some good starting points. If you’re lucky, you might even get to participate in the process; “$YOUR_LOCATION elections” will give you good pointers in that case.

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