I've seen two apocalyptic North American scenarios in fiction, and have previously dismissed both as ridiculous. 1. In the Fallout universe, the USA annexes Canada 2. In at least two Neal Stephenson novels (Snowcrash and Termination Shock), the USA has collapsed. I've never before thought that either of these would have a semi-realistic path to actually happening.
In the Handmaid's Tale TV show, the US has turned into a repressive religious state horrifyingly cruel to women, and people will occasionally try to cross the border into Canada to safety.
Canada considering charging for road access from USA to Alaska
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Re: Canada considering charging for road access from USA to Alaska
#152I'm kinda surprised they haven't been doing this all along, or at least something to recover revenue from US folks using their roads to travel between the US but not contributing much to the economy in between.
Presumably they were happy about the gasoline revenues and hotel stops.
Re: Canada considering charging for road access from USA to Alaska
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
Absolutely. Canada is almost certainly going to cancel or severely limit a pending F35 order, and is actively sourcing aircraft and negotiating mutual arms deals with European partners.
… which is hard to do for European plane makers that have engines with parts licensed from US companies. Hopefully this all leads to more countries stopping relying on US trade.
Re: Canada considering charging for road access from USA to Alaska
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
> dismissed both as ridiculous I think this idealism/naiveness is why you're now sliding further and further away from democracy. Older countries already had their democracies stress-tested, but seemingly this is the biggest test so far for the "checks and balances" in the US, and I feel like many other countries learned to always live with idea that democracy can slip away really quickly unless you always pay attent…
How do you reconcile that idea with the fact that the United States is the oldest country with a continuously running democracy?
Re: Canada considering charging for road access from USA to Alaska
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's incorrect to think of Canada as being "cornered" here nor having "nothing to lose". It's the US that's isolating itself. Canada isn't 'cornered'. It has the entire rest of the world to talk to and make deals with. It has everything to lose by continuing to rely on the US, which is why you're seeing such a hard pivot toward Europe and Asia.
This is silly. US is Canada's biggest trading partner and one of the largest borders in the world. 80% of people live within 1 hour of the border. Free trade has allowed both economies to prosper. Canada has everything to gain with free trade. You are right on over reliance, but free trade benefits everyone.
There was already a sentiment of distrust in Canada about being so dependent on American goodwill. You can see this in the debates from the 1998 federal election (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyYjRmM7RDY) on the establishment of CUSFTA, the precursor to NAFTA and later CUSMA. Brian Turner (red tie in that video) argued that free trade in Canada would lead inevitably 'reduce' Canada to becoming a 'colony' of the United States. He lost the election, and the agreement went through. Here we are almost three decades later and, as Canadians see it, those fears are at risk of coming true.
I'm not sure that Americans really understand that this has permanently damaged the relationship between our countries. It's going to be a generation before there will be the political will in Canada to consider going back to something similar to NAFTA/CUSMA again. Even assuming the United States returns to open trade policies again, the question forever on everyone's mind will be "what if another Trump gets elected?".
Re: Canada considering charging for road access from USA to Alaska
#156I’m surprised all the countries the US is trying to bully aren’t considering moving to the Euro as the reserve currency (even China might go along with this). It would be so damaging for the US they might actually understand they have been benefiting from a win-win situation since the end of the Second World War.
For better or worse, dollar is the only reserve currency. Every other central bank holds dollars on both sides of their balance sheet. As a result, any attempt to switch away from the dollar would be… cataclysmic.
Re: Canada considering charging for road access from USA to Alaska
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think "annexing" Canada seems a bit ludicrous still. I have no doubt Trump wants to expand, but I suspect such expansion would be deeply unpopular in a country proud, seemingly for the grace of simply not being the US (as, let's be honest, Canada is far more similar to the US than it is to any other country in north america).
It would be fairly difficult to be similar to any other country in North America, innit
Re: Canada considering charging for road access from USA to Alaska
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the Handmaid's Tale TV show, the US has turned into a repressive religious state horrifyingly cruel to women, and people will occasionally try to cross the border into Canada to safety.
As a Canadian, this is increasingly becoming my best case scenario. Hopefully we can maintain our independence, and many of the freedoms and judicial process the US is currently destroying, although there are some exceptions our govt drastically needs to address * * the biggest example I expect Americans to bring up is gun control. Canada absolutely needs to revert to a logic and data based restriction approach rathe…
and what would data tell why guns have to be restricted?
Some questions:
- what the fraction of gun crimes are commited by law-abiding citizens, which would be actually subject of restrictions?
- is number of casualties high compared to casualties from knife fights, over-doze, obesity, and car accidents because of speeding
Is there data for this question which would back restricting populations from having tools of self defense against tyrannic government(could happen in Canada too one day) and make it high priority for society compared to other problems?
Re: Canada considering charging for road access from USA to Alaska
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly this. It's interesting watching how Americans are talking about this issue vs Canadians. Even my liberal friends in the US think it's more "Silly" and "Troll" behaviour on Trump's part -- "you're not taking that seriously, are you?" Yes, we're taking it seriously. It wasn't some one-off tweet. He's the official head of state and silence from the rest of the GOP and the US political class generally isn't exact…
> The US is the only country that has ever invaded us. Who is “us”? Surely we need to acknowledge that Europeans invaded Canada in the first place? The “us” that can make claims about having been invaded likely is just the indigenous people of that land. Of course, this applies to America as well. I do wonder what causes all of us to view a certain set of borders as the “correct” one. I also do the same thing. > Yes,…
I think northeastern US states have more in common with us than their own southern states. I think the Canadian political class -- both conservative and liberal -- are really parasitical awful people overall, and our own business community are oligopoly-trending douches with a penchant for using regulatory capture to screw their own citizens. I think Quebec could as easily be its own nation, in a north american federation and that the structure of much of the Canadian state is arbitrary.
But I think you've touched on something, which is that Trump has poisoned all discourse. I like many others have turned rabidly nationalist in the last few months.
In any case there's a reason why Canada exists. It's not some accident of history or just some retrograde unenlightened loyalists who liked the monarchy. Many of our ancestors saw aspects of dysfunction and injustice in the way the US was taking shape, and chose Canada as an (imperfect) alternative. And that there is an "alternate path" for governance in North America is in fact I think the precise thing that actually enrages people like Trump.
As for the "who is us?" and the invasion comment, my point is only that there is actually a long-running "meme" inside American politics since the very foundation of the US that objects to the existence of Canada at all, and included the assimilation of Canada in a large Manifest Destiny project. It's usually been a fringe position, but it has at times become amplified. E.g. under McKinley there was similar talk as what Trump is mouthing now, and of course during 1812, etc. It's "out there", but it's consistently present.
And that's the reason Canadians take this annexation talk seriously.
Re: Canada considering charging for road access from USA to Alaska
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Losing reserve status will be damaging to some parts of the american economy and create a boom in others. Which parts will benefit from higher inflation? The only reason the US has been spared from >20% inflation after engaging in what would be called "money printing" by American press when practiced by a 3rd world country is that there are deep pools of unused reserves slowing the overall velocity. Americans don't…
> Which parts will benefit from higher inflation? All domestic producers which produce products that cost less than imported competitors. I agree with you. The question to be answered is what kind of economy do americans want to have going forward. It's great to be in America at present, but what happens if global relations continue to deteriorate and fracture?
Who will afford to buy their expensive products? Cheap imports are what is making minimum wage-earners circumstances bearable. Full-on reshoring is untenable without reforging the entire economy for higher salaries at the bottom. The whole system has feedback loops (higher wages -> higher product prices) which will cause pain for a long, long time before things stabilize. I don't think Americans have the stomach for it now, moreso with the threadbare social safety nets being shredded. Any politician or political group pushing for this will not survive long enough to see it through. The task is impossible for leaders incapable of considering second order effects, and beyond.