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Moving away from US cloud services

martijnhols.nl

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Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#151

Post by cedws »

noirscape wrote: post #45

A shame that OP recommends Proton. The fact they don't support open email protocols like IMAP/SMTP without an extremely frustrating proxy setup is what ultimately turned me away from their service. Being able to "just" use a native mail client is pretty much a must. The vendor lock-in from something like Proton feels way worse as a result. Can't speak to Proton Pass, but it strikes me as a replacement that seems unne…

How would you support E2E without the proxy? Not that the majority of people’s emails are truly E2E anyway on Proton, but still.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#152

Post by mhitza »

pzo wrote: post #106
frereubu wrote: post #58

> Wrapping up - Migrating away from US cloud services was easier than I expected. This is absolutely not the main takeaway and I find it difficult to see how he could write this - there are gaping holes. Git repos (it's too difficult). NPM (ditto). Startpage uses Google's index. The only meaningful switch he mentions is Proton, but as other comments have pointed out they have vendor lock-in problems. The real takeawa…

he mentioned also Quad9 - Cloudflare DNS replacement. I didn't know about and will probably switch to it. My other picks: SEARCH: qwant (france) LLM: mistral (france), librechat.ai, openwebui VPN: mullvad (sweden), protonVPN (swiss) AUTH: OpenID (sadly seems like not many sevices implement it) CLOUD: Hetzner (germany), OVHCloud (france) MAPS: here wego, openstreetmap EMAIL: protonMail (swiss), fastmail (australia) DN…

For dns there is also dns0.eu, which I've been using without issues for a year (or more, since it popped up in the HN feed).

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#153

Post by cassianoleal »

wkat4242 wrote: post #135
cassianoleal wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's no surprise nobody uses it for sensitive content anymore I get password reset links for pretty much every website on email. Few things as sensitive as that. I also receive and send documents, signed or for signing, with pretty sensitive information, over email. I agree it shouldn't be used for those but it certainly still is.

There's so many organisations moving away from it though. Email password recovery yes. But really, what does Proton's E2EE add to this? The email is still sent unencrypted across the internet. And only gets encrypted when it gets to their mailbox. It's not as if someone could easily break into gmail either. Unless they know your password but then Proton is just as vulnerable. I just consider their "Security" window d…

I agree. My comment was not related to Proton in any way, only as a counter to the idea that e-mail is on the way out.

Yes, there are companies and services getting away from it but there's still a lot of sensitive information flowing through it.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#154

Post by mhitza »

Foobar8568 wrote: post #141
pzo wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he mentioned also Quad9 - Cloudflare DNS replacement. I didn't know about and will probably switch to it. My other picks: SEARCH: qwant (france) LLM: mistral (france), librechat.ai, openwebui VPN: mullvad (sweden), protonVPN (swiss) AUTH: OpenID (sadly seems like not many sevices implement it) CLOUD: Hetzner (germany), OVHCloud (france) MAPS: here wego, openstreetmap EMAIL: protonMail (swiss), fastmail (australia) DN…

Yes, but nobody competes with AWS, Azure or GCP, everything else is easy. And most likely, most of the services/saas you mentionned relies on "US" cloud infrastructure.

> Yes, but nobody competes with AWS, Azure or GCP

Scaleway is positioned in the same space.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#155

Post by max_ »

noirscape wrote: post #45

A shame that OP recommends Proton. The fact they don't support open email protocols like IMAP/SMTP without an extremely frustrating proxy setup is what ultimately turned me away from their service. Being able to "just" use a native mail client is pretty much a must. The vendor lock-in from something like Proton feels way worse as a result. Can't speak to Proton Pass, but it strikes me as a replacement that seems unne…

Why is IMAP/SMTP so important?

What exactly are people missing out on by Proton not having this support?

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#156

Post by chgs »

jve wrote: post #136
piokoch wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, in the USA you can still have VPN server that is not storing logs, something that is simply illegal in European Union countries. In the USA you can purchase prepaid SIM card in Wallmart with cash, put it in your phone and you have anonymous phone number, again, this is illegal in Europe in a typical stupid European way, as any criminal who needs an anonymous card would pull in to the retailer some drunk or homel…

True regarding logs. False regarding SIM cards. European.

Not true regarding logs given mullvad is the only half-trustworthy vpn provider out there.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#157

Post by pimterry »

wkat4242 wrote: post #81
nasso_dev wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about Scaleway?

I like them a lot but they only have EU DCs, if you are looking for Global (or at least Asia) you're out of luck for now. Perhaps this disconnect from US services might give them the impulse to spread out though! I'm really happy with them as a customer and I don't have needs beyond Europe anyway.

I've found Scaleway for AWS-style managed backend services fronted by Bunny (https://bunny.net/ - also EU-based & owned, but with global CDN DCs) works well! Bunny have nearly 30 DCs in Asia alone.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#158

Post by carschno »

CER10TY wrote: post #110
noirscape wrote: post #45

A shame that OP recommends Proton. The fact they don't support open email protocols like IMAP/SMTP without an extremely frustrating proxy setup is what ultimately turned me away from their service. Being able to "just" use a native mail client is pretty much a must. The vendor lock-in from something like Proton feels way worse as a result. Can't speak to Proton Pass, but it strikes me as a replacement that seems unne…

What's a good alternative to Proton? Still haven't migrated my business away from Google Workspace, and I was thinking Proton would be a good alternative, but apparently not if they don't even support IMAP/SMTP.

Mailbox looks very solid, although I don't have long-term experience: https://mailbox.org

It provides email, online storage, video conferencing, calendar etc., all of it privacy-preserving by default. You explicitly don't have to provide any personal details.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#159

Post by blitzar »

cedws wrote: post #151
noirscape wrote: post #45

A shame that OP recommends Proton. The fact they don't support open email protocols like IMAP/SMTP without an extremely frustrating proxy setup is what ultimately turned me away from their service. Being able to "just" use a native mail client is pretty much a must. The vendor lock-in from something like Proton feels way worse as a result. Can't speak to Proton Pass, but it strikes me as a replacement that seems unne…

How would you support E2E without the proxy? Not that the majority of people’s emails are truly E2E anyway on Proton, but still.

Decryption / encryption in email client.

If (more) email clients handled this you wouldn't need protonmail.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#160

Post by falleng0d »

nickslaughter02 wrote: post #98

I would like to see a movement more along the lines of "Moving away from cloud services", not just US services. Our computers are faster than ever, internet bandwidth is not a problem, public IPs affordable. Why not self host when possible?

Why move away though? The cloud subsidizes for "free" a lot of powerful services that the average user can only dream of self-hosting.

And the price is what? Your browsing history? Personalized Ad's? Provided you don't AdBlock that is!

I like the symbiotic relationship. I do believe in safeguarding yourself from getting locked out of your life due to your Google acc getting banned but outside of that I see no harm in getting free service in exchange for data. It's a fair deal.

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