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Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

theintercept.com

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Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#151

Post by milesrout »

Tostino wrote: post #51
nickff wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with you, but there’s a difference between using a non-covert method of communication like telephone or SMS, and a social media post, which is designed to be relayed and amplified.

What legitimate reason would the police have for monitoring everything on social media that is protected by the Constitution?

Why would they need a "legitimate reason"? They are people like any other people. Anyone has the right to read things on Twitter. Police officers are normal people, they don't have special rights or privileges and they don't have special restrictions or limitations. That is the foundation of policing by consent.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#154

Post by [deleted] »

mmooss wrote: post #120
shadowgovt wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we remove the tech from the story and consider the old "colonial village test": A man walks up and down the street either shouting about, or handing out flyers, that say "We should get together and blockade main street in protest of the illegitimate taxes Congress has passed on our whiskey." Is it legal for the cops to stop him? Probably not. Is it legal for the cops to move their plans around to show up on main s…

> If we remove the tech from the story If we remove the tech from the dropping of the atomic bombs, what's the big deal? You can't remove the tech; it is intrinsic to the issue.

[deleted]

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#155

Post by shadowgovt »

mmooss wrote: post #120
shadowgovt wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we remove the tech from the story and consider the old "colonial village test": A man walks up and down the street either shouting about, or handing out flyers, that say "We should get together and blockade main street in protest of the illegitimate taxes Congress has passed on our whiskey." Is it legal for the cops to stop him? Probably not. Is it legal for the cops to move their plans around to show up on main s…

> If we remove the tech from the story If we remove the tech from the dropping of the atomic bombs, what's the big deal? You can't remove the tech; it is intrinsic to the issue.

Sorry, I don't follow.

If you remove the tech from dropping of atomic bombs, you still have firebombs, gas attacks, and myriad other weapons that may or may not be considered either war crimes or simply too destructive to allow. You can still extrapolate and / or build analogies from the older models to the new one.

Why can't we remove the tech in this context? Is the issue that the tech allows surveillance of public conversation to happen cheaply at scale, and that creates a fundamentally different scenario from someone saying things in public being overheard? Because I'd argue it does not; if one says things in public one should expect authorities to overhear the thing too because they're also in public.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#156

Post by Centigonal »

Aloisius wrote: post #131
Centigonal wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember, back when cannabis was illegal in most states, a common argument was that white and black people reported using cannabis at the same rate when surveyed. However, many, many more black people ended up in prison for it. Here is a survey of US youths that supports this premise: https://monitoringthefuture.org/data/panel/demographic-subgr...

I'm confused. That doesn't appear to show the same rates between demographics. It appears to show generally more frequent use in men than women, younger than older and until somewhat recently, white than black or hispanic.

Yes, that's what the survey I linked indicates. I didn't want to make that claim because that's not the argument I'd heard in the past, even though that is what this survey indicates.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#157

Post by Tostino »

milesrout wrote: post #151
Tostino wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What legitimate reason would the police have for monitoring everything on social media that is protected by the Constitution?

Why would they need a "legitimate reason"? They are people like any other people. Anyone has the right to read things on Twitter. Police officers are normal people, they don't have special rights or privileges and they don't have special restrictions or limitations. That is the foundation of policing by consent.

We are paying their salary. Why should they be spending time attempting to proactively police a group who is just exercising constitutionally protected right?

There is actual crime they could be investigating. Instead they are wasting resources on something that they shouldn't have anything to do with unless there is a threat of violence.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#158

Post by blorkusmelorkus »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #102
blorkusmelorkus wrote: post #99

Twitter started as TXT2MOB for organizing protests, and now it and social media have become surveillance tools. The irony.

> Twitter started as TXT2MOB for organizing protests, and now it and social media have become surveillance tools Propaganda, communication and surveillance vary only inasmuch as the sender and/or receiver are coöperating. When done in public, communication necessarily empowers the other two.

What are “the other” two here?

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#159

Post by bryanrasmussen »

Aloisius wrote: post #124
whatshisface wrote: post #63

Here's an interesting thought about how preferential surveillance can lead to repression even when it's public and not itself acted on: 1. Every demographic commits petty crimes and code violations at about the same rate (things like parking violations and music piracy). 2. However, people who are being watched will be caught more often. 3. The end result is that people in the "wrong" crowd on average are punished mo…

> 1. Every demographic commits petty crimes and code violations at about the same rate (things like parking violations and music piracy). What? The rates of parking violations and music piracy vary dramatically with age and gender.

I suppose the implication could be that the set petty crimes and code violations, which includes many things, among which are parking violations and music piracy (two things that vary dramatically between demographics), has an equal distribution between all demographics.

If parking violations are an old demographic problem, and music piracy are a young demographic problem for example (even though it is assumed that more things are in the set than just these two) then it could be that they roughly cancel each other out.

I guess one would really need to know what the full set petty crimes and code violations consists of to be sure.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#160

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

shadowgovt wrote: post #155
mmooss wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we remove the tech from the story If we remove the tech from the dropping of the atomic bombs, what's the big deal? You can't remove the tech; it is intrinsic to the issue.

Sorry, I don't follow. If you remove the tech from dropping of atomic bombs, you still have firebombs, gas attacks, and myriad other weapons that may or may not be considered either war crimes or simply too destructive to allow. You can still extrapolate and / or build analogies from the older models to the new one. Why can't we remove the tech in this context? Is the issue that the tech allows surveillance of public…

You actually really can’t extrapolate too much from existing weapons when the nuke was dropped. The singular, overwhelming devastation of that one weapon radically altered international politics forever.
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