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The Future Is Niri

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Re: The Future Is Niri

#151
post #84

I’m also a long time i3/sway user and find Niri quite comfy. I can carry over most of my muscle memory from sway for navigating the focus, moving windows etc. I’ve also found it to be very stable and works out of the box with xwayland-satellite. My biggest issue is that I keep “losing” windows. I open them in a deeply nested stack, do something else and forgot I already had opened the window. It also happens with swa…

Hyprscroller (a hyprland plugin with similar functionality as niri) has an "expose" type function. I tend to forget it's there though.

Re: The Future Is Niri

#152
post #84

I’m also a long time i3/sway user and find Niri quite comfy. I can carry over most of my muscle memory from sway for navigating the focus, moving windows etc. I’ve also found it to be very stable and works out of the box with xwayland-satellite. My biggest issue is that I keep “losing” windows. I open them in a deeply nested stack, do something else and forgot I already had opened the window. It also happens with swa…

You talking about something like the issue I linked to earlier? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43347909

FWIW I've got a niri IPC / bash / jq abomination that emulates run-or-raise functionality and works probably better than the original RoR. It cycles through windows matching a particular appId and starts one if one doesn't already exist. That, alongside rofi(wayland) as a fuzzy search nav for all open windows, made a huge difference to me.

Re: The Future Is Niri

#153

I just can't wrap my head around tiling WMs (and I've been doing Linux since a _long_ time ago). I just don't see how usable they can be when you have a "small" screen to be honest.

Tilers can remove Gnome's overly whitespaced decorations, probably saving 10% in screen pixels alone.

If you want to maximize all windows on run, niri can do that with a rule. It then becomes like a monocle layout where you can use swipes/keyboard/scroll wheel to navigate between maximized windows. I don't know of any DE that will run all windows maximized by default.

Too bad I no longer have an 800x600 netbook. Niri would be perfect for it.

Re: The Future Is Niri

#154

Scrollable WMs are really terrific because you get about 80% of the productivity benefits of a tiling WM with 20% of the effort. I am puzzeled by the fact it took us 30-40 years to figure it out !

I had something Very similar when I used i3.

I had some hacked together python that allowed me to yank a window in and out of the stack by name and stashed a window that was the oldest in the stack (basically an LRU cache for windows)

It "worked" but I would really have enjoyed paperwm when I was in college.

There are some things that only floating WMs do right. I have a bad habit of enjoying having a few floating (pinned) copies of a document on my screen at a time in different places to cross-reference without having to move around much.

Re: The Future Is Niri

#155
post #9

I would like to know, coming from a traditional tiling window manager, how does the shortcut workflow look like? For me the number one thing is having fixed shortcuts á la Super+[0-9] to go to specific windows / workspaces / essentially a specific program. If I can have that, and additionally solving the "worskpace management" problem as TFA described, I'm sold! Does it make sense to use "workspaces" like this with N…

Yes, Niri still supports numbered workspaces in the same was as WMs like Sway. It's just that now you can scroll them horizontally too.

I tried it and I'm completely sold!

Re: The Future Is Niri

#156
Happy to give it a try but I have 10 years using tiling wms exclusively for research and work and I never wanted to have more than 5 workspaces. I think the nice thing about wms is that mental model to keep things lean and simple, similar to how I also don't have a thousand tabs open and in fact I try to close all of the by the end of every day. I also fail to see the benefit of that many workspaces given you have other tools such as tmux etc.

Re: The Future Is Niri

#157
Does anyone else find it suspicious that the author was using so many workspaces on sway? I have to wonder if they're not making good use of sway's tabbed and stacked containers ...

> If you don't find yourself constantly swapping between fullscreen and non-fullscreen views and running out of workspaces, you don't have very many windows open. Don't even get me started on tabbed/stacked layouts with nested containers, the least ergonomic Band-Aid™ for the space issue I've ever seen.

On the contrary: I think this author really ought to get started on tabbed/stacking layouts! Constantly swapping between fullscreen and non-fullscreen views, like running out of workspaces, definitely sounds like an antipattern to me. I don't believe that the number of windows is the problem here.

If I'm deep into something, I might have 10 or more windows open, all on one workspace, on a 13" 1080p laptop panel. Of course, not all of the windows are visible at once. A common pattern for me is to have most of my screen taken up by a container split "horizontally" (meaning into a left side and a right side), where each side can be a tabbed container containing several windows. For example, I often have Emacs on the left, and several tabbed terminals (including man pages) on the right. Maybe some of those terminal tabs on the right are split "vertically" into a top and a bottom terminal (e.g. for a shell prompt on top and man page on bottom). Outside of this big left-right split container, which fills almost the whole screen when it's visible, I'll usually have some browser windows open. If it's just one browser window, I'll put it and the big-left-right-split (BLRS) in a stacking container. This way, you can think of the browser as being "above" the BLRS, and you can get there and back by moving the focus up and down again. It's like each stacked item (the browser and the BLRS) gets its own workspace, in that they each take up nearly the full screen when visible, but actually they're both on the same workspace, and the only cost is the loss of one title-bar's height of screen space. Then, if I want more browser windows, I can split the existing one into its own tabbed container. (I use both WM tabs and browser tabs, just like I used to use multiple browser windows on one workspace with Gnome.)

Basically, as my number of windows grows, things become (slightly!) more nested, rather than being ejected into surrounding workspaces. The trick to making this ergonomic is to choose what to stack vs tab so as to allow you to flip back and forth between (at least) any two windows with just a couple keys. (I also have two keybindings to split a container and immediately make it stacking or tabbed, and also two keybindings to focus parent-wards/child-wards. Then, you can easily jump from a window in the middle of a tabbed container on the right of the screen to the window on the left half of the screen---you just focus parent-wards then left (two keys). To get back, just focus right (one key).)

I should also add that I haven't really seen any problems with apps behaving badly when being resized, including Firefox. Maybe that's because my workflow mostly looks and feels like "slots" of a few different sizes (roughly full screen, half screen, quarter screen), and adding new windows to, or moving windows between, these slots is never going to change the size of the slots or the windows displayed in them. In fact, with traditional floating window managers, when has resizing a Firefox window ever caused me to lose my place in the page? Only when I make it super unusably narrow, or short, or both, and then expand it again. This is what would happen if you open a bunch of windows all in horizontal and/or vertical splits, with no stacking or tabbed containers! But why would you do that?

Re: The Future Is Niri

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is me exactly haha. What I really want is just gnome with a little more tiling capability for the rare occasion, like thirds and quarters. But the majority of my tiling needs are in the terminal and tmux is the hero

Did you see Pop OS? https://pop.system76.com/ They follow ubuntu releases, kind of. The downside, they went all in into their new desktop env - cosmic, and until they release it they won't move on from 20.04.. I really loved the tiling feature in PopOS 20.04 which came out of the box. But then I bought a new laptop, and had to move to arch to use it..

minor correction, 22.04 is the most recent Pop!_OS release so not quite that ancient

Re: The Future Is Niri

#159
I used AwesomeWM for the longest time before switching to Wayland where I used Gnome because none of the existing WMs seemed interesting at the time. I tried riverwm for a bit but it didn't work for me either. But lately I've been super intrigued by Niri -- it feels fresh and exciting. I've been keeping an eye on it and I can't wait to try it out!
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