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Apple Exclaves

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Re: Apple Exclaves

#151

Post by devmor »

amelius wrote: post #107
neom wrote: post #9

I think Steve truly believed at his core, very simply: your laptop is your diary, and they have a responsibility to that. I don't think Tim would be CEO if he didn't believe what Steve did. It's so weird, but I really miss Steve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij-jlF98SzA

As someone who builds industrial/scientific machines, the consumer oriented devices that Apple makes are completely unusable for me. Locking down completely capable computing devices seems like such a waste. I'm also not a fan of how Apple controls devices and the market of software after the device has changed owner. I'm staying the hell away from this ecosystem. Not sure why many so-called "hackers" are so enthusia…

Personally, I do not like MacOS, and I do not like using a Macbook for work, because I am a developer and a hacker. It is harder to do my job and harder to be efficient at my work.

That being said, I love iOS on my phone and tablet. I used to prefer android, because of how much I could customize it, but it slowly became less reliable and more centered around selling me products and services sponsored by Google or my carrier. I switched to an iPhone and iPad about 7 years ago and am much happier with a reliable set of mobile devices that I know are relatively secure and wont get in the way of what I want to do.

Point being, the OS you want on, and ecosystem you want around your devices absolutely depends entirely on what you want your devices to do (or not do against your will).

Re: Apple Exclaves

#152

Post by hello_computer »

vintagedave wrote: post #112
hello_computer wrote: post #100

Apple works wonders protecting their plantation, but what protects you from them? Have any of you pondered the prospect of “ the last geohot ”?

I had to google. There's a hacker called geohot, is that what this comment is referring to? Could you explain what you mean more please?

he was the first to jailbreak the iphone. where do you see things going when they release an un-jailbreakable iphone?

Re: Apple Exclaves

#153

Post by dlivingston »

perfmode wrote: post #75
musicale wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is weird. Jobs was divisive and (not infrequently) abrasive, and why would you miss a tech billionaire anyway? Yet I also feel indebted to him and to the folks at Apple who helped to produce some of my favorite products like the Mac, the iPod, and the iPad. Jobs also said a lot of things that still resonate with me. Recently Apple introduced a "classic Mac" screensaver that shows how carefully designed the origina…

Jobs was more than a tech billionaire. He was someone who had refined personal taste and stood on values and was willing to do what it took to see them through, despite the friction. And the outcome was a computing company that was waaaay less mediocre than 99% of these other memetic, mediocre gradient-descent chasing privacy-abusing, ad-supported companies. Apple has raised the bar so high. And the DNA of what is ma…

I think of Apple like I think of Disney: _consistently good_ products. Maybe not the best in all the things all the times, and some duds from time to time, but if you blindly hit "play" on a Disney movie you're going to be watching something at least pretty good.

Re: Apple Exclaves

#154

Post by runjake »

lambdaone wrote: post #114

I'm quite surprised that they use a secure exclave to control the physical camera LED - this is absolutely massive overengineering to do something very simple. A tiny bit of hardwired dedicated logic integrated into the camera module would be more than adequate to do this - just gating of either the digital I/O or the power to the camera, and a pulse-stretcher so the LED goes on for at least a few seconds each time t…

It’s not over engineering. It’s because of research like this, along with other researchers like Charlie Miller.

Apple generally isn’t out to make things willfully overcomplicated without good reason.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42260379

Re: Apple Exclaves

#155

Post by vintagedave »

hello_computer wrote: post #152
vintagedave wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to google. There's a hacker called geohot, is that what this comment is referring to? Could you explain what you mean more please?

he was the first to jailbreak the iphone. where do you see things going when they release an un-jailbreakable iphone?

They're pretty close now, and I'm increasingly dissatisfied with software on both iOS and macOS.

The privacy features for messaging and cloud storage, plus not having to worry (as much) about security as I might with Linux, are the only reason I still use Apple. Every year I get more and more disappointed though. More and more nostalgic for the Apple software I used to enjoy using.

Re: Apple Exclaves

#156

Post by nedt »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #22
neom wrote: post #9

I think Steve truly believed at his core, very simply: your laptop is your diary, and they have a responsibility to that. I don't think Tim would be CEO if he didn't believe what Steve did. It's so weird, but I really miss Steve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij-jlF98SzA

Steve believed at his core that locking down devices was the best way to extract business value from users. That's why you can't install any apps without telling Apple or get your location without sending it to Apple. He also believed very strongly in good marketing, and he jumped on privacy marketing very quickly after the Facebook - Google privacy spat that coincided with the failure of iTunes Ping.

The first iPhone didn't have an app store and the idea was to just use websites and later install webapps. On that there is no control whatsoever, so no I don't think the original idea was to lock down the devices for business value.

Re: Apple Exclaves

#157

Post by kavok »

devmor wrote: post #151
amelius wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who builds industrial/scientific machines, the consumer oriented devices that Apple makes are completely unusable for me. Locking down completely capable computing devices seems like such a waste. I'm also not a fan of how Apple controls devices and the market of software after the device has changed owner. I'm staying the hell away from this ecosystem. Not sure why many so-called "hackers" are so enthusia…

Personally, I do not like MacOS, and I do not like using a Macbook for work, because I am a developer and a hacker. It is harder to do my job and harder to be efficient at my work. That being said, I love iOS on my phone and tablet. I used to prefer android, because of how much I could customize it, but it slowly became less reliable and more centered around selling me products and services sponsored by Google or my…

Out of curiosity would you prefer Windows or Linux instead of Mac?

Re: Apple Exclaves

#158

Post by alabastervlog »

supriyo-biswas wrote: post #147
Vendan wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a software engineer at a company that does all macbooks. I hate my M1 macbook because it's way less reliable then my desktop, both software and hardware. I have to hold the power button to force it off roughly twice a month, it absolutely refuses to play nice with my KVM (that my desktop has no issues with), and the "keyboard secure input" feature regularly goes on the fritz and breaks anything that taps into the…

Much of these complaints are usually better directed at Crowdstrike and other EDRs. The performance difference between my employer-provided Macbook and my personal one are like night and day.

Hell, half (but only half...) the reason I try to get MacBooks anywhere I work is because they're usually not quite as shitted up with broken surveillance software eating half the company's potential productivity, as the Windows ones.

Re: Apple Exclaves

#159

Post by alabastervlog »

amelius wrote: post #107
neom wrote: post #9

I think Steve truly believed at his core, very simply: your laptop is your diary, and they have a responsibility to that. I don't think Tim would be CEO if he didn't believe what Steve did. It's so weird, but I really miss Steve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij-jlF98SzA

As someone who builds industrial/scientific machines, the consumer oriented devices that Apple makes are completely unusable for me. Locking down completely capable computing devices seems like such a waste. I'm also not a fan of how Apple controls devices and the market of software after the device has changed owner. I'm staying the hell away from this ecosystem. Not sure why many so-called "hackers" are so enthusia…

What's excessively locked down on MacBooks?

There are some security features that (for good reason) get in the way of e.g. dtrace, but I'm not aware of any of those that you can't turn off.

> I'm also not a fan of how Apple controls devices and the market of software after the device has changed owner.

What's this about?

Re: Apple Exclaves

#160

Post by rollcat »

Vendan wrote: post #145
rollcat wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a self-branded hacker so I'll share my motivation: Shit. Works. This is critical. I can focus on my actual task at hand, rather than fiddling with the system. Some perspective: I've been on Debian for 15 years, and I still hold it in very high regard for servers. I'm also an occasional Alpine & OpenBSD user; and Windows for games. I've tried Ubuntu, couldn't stop it from getting in my way. Before you suggest Fedo…

I'm a software engineer at a company that does all macbooks. I hate my M1 macbook because it's way less reliable then my desktop, both software and hardware. I have to hold the power button to force it off roughly twice a month, it absolutely refuses to play nice with my KVM (that my desktop has no issues with), and the "keyboard secure input" feature regularly goes on the fritz and breaks anything that taps into the…

> I have to hold the power button to force it off roughly twice a month [...]

Hmm...

    $ last | grep reboot       
    reboot time                                Sun Feb 16 14:10
    reboot time                                Fri Feb 14 19:40
    reboot time                                Thu Jan 30 09:52
    reboot time                                Fri Dec 13 16:20
    reboot time                                Tue Oct 29 15:32
    reboot time                                Tue Sep 17 12:19
    [...]
I guess most of these are from macOS updates. I don't think I've used the power button at all in the past year or so? FWIW I'm using a Mac mini (also M1) rather than a Macbook, but "it works for me" was the entire point of my original comment.

> it absolutely refuses to play nice with my KVM (that my desktop has no issues with)

Honestly I'm with you here, but I'm pretty sure KVMs are just pure lottery. I plug the mini via USB-C/DP to a screen that has a simple built-in USB hub (which in turn handles mouse/KB/audio interface); this also works perfectly fine with my Thinkpad T495. However an expensive TB3 dock with a dozen ports doesn't work with either, but it's just fine with a 2017 MBP. TBH I wouldn't blame any of the involved parties; USB-C/TB always came off as a finicky mess to me.

> I'm a software engineer at a company that does all macbooks.

I can't say anything but extend my sympathy. In an ideal world, companies prioritise employee satisfaction and productivity. There's an argument that this is a trade-off vs increased IT support cost/workload, but I guess SWEs don't need much support to begin with?

You could at least appeal on the basis that the HW you've been provided with is clearly unreliable. Come up with some numbers about lost productivity. Bosses love numbers.

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