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An investigation into egg prices

thebignewsletter.com

151–160 of 182 posts

Re: An investigation into egg prices

#151

> fake “animal welfare” program designed to reduce overall flock numbers rather than improve hen’s lives. I love examples like this showing how this moral cultural movements are often just propaganda for nefarious purposes. People talk about recycling being pushed by the plastics industry but I’m sure there are more in the environmental side of things.

Did you read the linked evidence that the "animal welfare" program was fake? What part of it did you interpret as fake? What evidence supports your conclusion that this is an example of "propaganda for nefarious purposes"?

I agree with the description in the linked document - defendants presented "substantial evidence that grocery stores and other customers demanded animal-welfare standards", companies like McDonald's, Walmart, and Kroger demanded or required the animal welfare standards, the program was developed with input from a "Scientific Advisory Committee" of experts in animal reproductive welfare, and there was pressure from animal-rights groups and consumers for better treatment of hens.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ilnd.26...

> For their part, Defendants argued at trial that the UEP Certified Program was a bona fide effort to satisfy customer demand. In Defendants’ view, the UEP Certified Program was a natural response to pressure from animal-welfare groups, buyers, and end consumers. According to Defendants, they felt pressure to make life better for hens.

> In that vein, Defendants presented substantial evidence that the grocery stores and other customers demanded animal-welfare standards. So did consumers. And so did animal-rights groups.

> For example, before adoption of the UEP Certified Program, Cal-Maine lost McDonald’s as a customer after McDonald’s demanded producers expand the size of cages for their hens. See Defs.’ Ex. 182. And within a few years of the creation of the UEP Certified Program, grocery chains like Walmart and Kroger would purchase eggs only from UEP Certified producers. See Defs.’ Exs. 329, 374, 639.

> According to Defendants, they were simply responding to market demand when they implemented the cage-space restrictions in the UEP Certified Program. The jury heard evidence that the UEP Certified Program was a legitimate animal-welfare program. Specifically, Defendants pointed out that the UEP created the standard after following the guidance of a Scientific Advisory Committee.

> That Committee consisted of an all-star team. See 11/1/23 Trial Tr., at 3085:25 (Dckt. No. 657) (Armstrong) (“I was very, very pleased. We put our dream team together.”). It was chaired by a leader in the field, Dr. Jeffrey Armstrong, who has degrees in physiology, and specializes in the reproductive physiology of farm animals. See 11/1/23 Trial Tr., at 3074:19-25 (Dckt. No. 657) (Armstrong). Reproductive physiology of farm animals is what it sounds like – how animal reproduction works. Id. at 3075:1-10.

> In sum, the jury learned about the UEP Certified program, and about its standards. And the jury heard dueling views about the purpose of the program.

> Again, Plaintiffs alleged that the UEP Certified Program was a backdoor way to restrict supply. Plaintiffs told the jury that the program required the birds to have more space. More space equals fewer hens in each cage. And fewer hens means fewer eggs.

Re: An investigation into egg prices

#152

A local discount grocery chain near me hasn't had shortages nor have they inflated prices. Store brand eggs are $6 for 18. This is in an area where groceries are normally quite expensive. Naturally they could have it be a loss leader, but then I would expect them to be curtailing quantities. The shelves are fully stocked every time I'm there. The other chains, all more expensive, have half or third stocked shelves an…

In Houston we also have eggs for $0.34/each as you do ... but those same eggs were $0.21 each in January. So perhaps your $6 per 18 is the new raised price? Our cheapest eggs have increased in price by 62% in the past 60 days.

It depends on the grocers contracts. Trader joes is famously selling eggs at $3.50 a dozen since they negotiated a good price a while ago.

Re: An investigation into egg prices

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$1 for 8g of protein? Tuna/sardines are a bargain by that measure.

Are you seeing how much a can of sardines go for these days? Somehow they’ve been priced as a delicacy. Even spam isn’t cheap anymore.

$1 per 3.75 oz can, with free shipping. [1]

So $4.27 per lb.

Canned chicken can be cheaper.

[1] https://www.walmart.com/ip/Great-Value-Sardines-in-Water-3-7...

Re: An investigation into egg prices

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hope that we can finance these growing expenses through treasuries or debasement No need for "debasement", but sure. > all the while ignoring the hollowing out No, we should not be doing this. But the left has been talking about this for decades and was mocked for it. The idea that billionaires and the recipients of their largesse are how we stop "ignoring the hollowing out" just seems laughable to me. > allowing a…

>> all the while ignoring the hollowing out of American industrial base and expertise > But the left has been talking about this for decades and was mocked for it. > These are absolutely things we should focused on, and it is true that the left-as-represented-by-the-Democratic party has not really done so (certainly not until Biden, and even then it was relatively weak sauce). So, you're right - up until this "regime…

There is absolutely nothing the administration is doing that will have any impact on this stuff. That's not suprising for two reasons (a) the current administration obviously, clearly, self-admittedly represents the interest of the capital class (b) the current administration is so willfully ignorant and utterly incompetent at so many things that even if (a) was not true, they would be unable to anything to advance on these issues.

To take just a single example: tariffs. It is true that if one were interested in re-growing a domestic manufacturing base, tariffs might be one tool you might use to help promote that (they also might not be). So now we have an administration that has actually gone with tariffs, but in such a ridiculous fashion that it is more or less certain that they will have no such impact on the US economy. Tariffs on! Tariffs off! Tariffs on! Tariffs off for my friends! etc. etc. In fact, the most charitable interpretation of the current tariff strategy is as a back door for more ass-kissing by companies and economic sectors.

The same applies to everything else they've done so far. This will not remove the tumor, though it may amputate enough limbs that the tumor is the least of our worries.

Re: An investigation into egg prices

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

heterodox is a common term in the economics world. imagine it says "mainstream" if you prefer. > You could start by stating your assumptions and basic axioms. I'm not here to write a text book on economics. I'm here to point out that "debt is bad, we can never carry on like this" is a belief, not a statement of fact.

"Orthodox" is the word you're looking for. "Heterodox" means not mainstream. MMT is heterodox.

Ah, thanks for a vitally important contribution to the thread. Error noted, and maybe I will remember it next time!

Re: An investigation into egg prices

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

heterodox is a common term in the economics world. imagine it says "mainstream" if you prefer. > You could start by stating your assumptions and basic axioms. I'm not here to write a text book on economics. I'm here to point out that "debt is bad, we can never carry on like this" is a belief, not a statement of fact.

How about "commonsense" instead? Everything in macroeconomics is a belief, because it is clearly far from a hard science. Common sense always applies to some degree when it is based on logic. Also my belief is that a system where there is no limits on government spending and debt seems obviously unstable and likely to become infinitely corrupt.

Common sense is a very poor guide to many aspects of the world. It's not true of physics, or biology, or astrophysics, and even areas of math are very, very far from common sense. Human cognitive biases make "common sense" as both a predictor how people will behave and as a basis for understanding the world a remarkably poor choice.

And yes, economics is far from a hard science and most macro is driven by some combination of personal experience and political ideology. But that doesn't mean that "non-common-sense" ideas about macro are wrong, anymore than it means that extrapolating from the "common sense" of personal experience (i.e. no limits on your own spending and debt will lead to bankruptcy) is right.

Re: An investigation into egg prices

#157

> fake “animal welfare” program designed to reduce overall flock numbers rather than improve hen’s lives. I love examples like this showing how this moral cultural movements are often just propaganda for nefarious purposes. People talk about recycling being pushed by the plastics industry but I’m sure there are more in the environmental side of things.

Did you read the linked evidence that the "animal welfare" program was fake? What part of it did you interpret as fake? What evidence supports your conclusion that this is an example of "propaganda for nefarious purposes"? I agree with the description in the linked document - defendants presented "substantial evidence that grocery stores and other customers demanded animal-welfare standards", companies like McDonald'…

I’m sure there is real demand for animal welfare. But presumably that would have hurt profits which is why they weren’t doing it in the first place.

But once they discovered that it’s a convenient excuse to raise their profit margins, they hopped onboard.

Re: An investigation into egg prices

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

where do chickens come from? eggs! If one needs more chickens, one could let the eggs be fertilized and then incubate those eggs. all you need is a rooster in good health. Eggs that are incubated in this way won't be in the grocery store in cartons, because they will be chickens instead.

It's a very different supply chain. You don't just chuck a rooster in with your layers because then you have to inspect all your eggs. New layers are bred away from the main flocks in relatively tiny volumes, under 1% of layers' eggs. Culls may drive a need for more layers to be raised, increasing that percentage but the cycle rate for these hens in intensive farms is pretty regular already (<18 months) so I doubt th…

> increasing that percentage but the cycle rate for these hens in intensive farms is pretty regular already (this actually speaks to my point more than the other replies you (and other) gave. A temporary shed for layers to nest isn't insurmountable. Especially if you know that the end result is more money for you because of supply issues.

What i am not sure about, is why that didn't happen, since you say it did not. anyhow, it was just an idle thought. If i was selling eggs, and suddenly a quarter of my flock was wiped out - by a fox or something - i would probably immediately borrow a rooster and let the layers nest. I've done it before, so i'm not just "guessing." Contemplating protecting nesting chickens is the only thing that gives me pause, as i don't really like "outside dogs", but i have a herding dog.

Re: An investigation into egg prices

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about "commonsense" instead? Everything in macroeconomics is a belief, because it is clearly far from a hard science. Common sense always applies to some degree when it is based on logic. Also my belief is that a system where there is no limits on government spending and debt seems obviously unstable and likely to become infinitely corrupt.

Common sense is a very poor guide to many aspects of the world. It's not true of physics, or biology, or astrophysics, and even areas of math are very, very far from common sense. Human cognitive biases make "common sense" as both a predictor how people will behave and as a basis for understanding the world a remarkably poor choice. And yes, economics is far from a hard science and most macro is driven by some combin…

I said common sense "based on logic" specifically to sidestep this popular argument about the evils of common sense. Such common sense includes statements like "if something can't go on forever it won't". I guess you disagree with this statement?

But no I don't agree with your claim. Common sense is an excellent guide and a major reason why evolution gave us large brains. And that includes the hard sciences, only failing in very specialized niches that often took centuries to find after almost everything else was well-explained by intuitive theories. Biology is not a hard science.

Re: An investigation into egg prices

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you are the 6.02% :) I do the same for EVERYTHING. my wife and I make a decent living but we drew lines when the prices started going up. we can afford it, not just eggs but also other things that have been price gouged in the last couple of years. issue is of course there are not enough of us to make a difference

There is no economic system that can accommodate a population that refuses to respond to prices. That said, I think your numbers are overly pessimistic. The critical part to remember is that people dont have to do the math and do the budgetary calculus. If they cant afford the eggs, they cant buy them.

I think there is small percentage of people that cannot afford the eggs. we are not talking diamond rings here - even if dozen eggs were $20 it is still $20 - most families can afford that...
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