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Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

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Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#151

China recently moved that direction. That would be nice collaboration to see between EU and China. China to publish policy to boost RISC-V chip use nationwide, sources say https://www.reuters.com/technology/china-publish-policy-boos...

If the goal is to decouple from the U.S., why would the EU want to collaborate with a totalitarian state like China?

EU is friends with totalitarian states like Bahrain,Syria, Qatar and Saudi Arabia.What's wrong with working with another totalitarian state ?

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#152
post #118

China recently moved that direction. That would be nice collaboration to see between EU and China. China to publish policy to boost RISC-V chip use nationwide, sources say https://www.reuters.com/technology/china-publish-policy-boos...

If you ignore the military ambitions of China and the fact they’re openly sharing technology with Russia, perhaps. I don’t see anything but regret for Europe several decades from now if they decide to start providing China with the technical expertise they’re currently lacking in this space. This is all about China trying to find a way to escape the pressure of sanctions from Europe and the US.

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Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#153
post #76

[flagged]

The current crop of cores were designed several years ago before some key standards were adopted. They exist mostly to experiment and allow early adopters to develop software. Next generation cores from companies like Ventana claim very high performance (we’ll see what PPW ends up being). Tenstorrent has already started talking about an extremely wide core to follow their already 8-wide designs. Qualcomm seems quite…

This is exactly correct. There is a long walk between working ISA and a high performance device that can sustain high IPC. Alibaba has the C930 now, only a few day ago. There are no credible performance figures on it yet, but they've made fast server grade ARMs, so they know how to build high performance CPUs. Then, as you say, there is Tenstorrent and Keller.

Can "Europe" achieve anything here? Anything is possible, I suppose... But given the players already at it, Europe is already way behind the curve.

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#154
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is it. China might be authoritarian, but it's acting way less eratic than the US right now.

"right now" being the key phrase here. On what length of time due you judge stability? The last 75 years or so in China... well amoung other things they killed over 50 million of their own people with a man made famine. The question is if the institutions that produced USA can hold. China on the other hand lacks the self correcting mechanisms that USA has built in.

China has a tendency to self-destruct every 300-400 years. The interesting thing is that many regions of the globe have a tendency to self-destruct every 300-400 years. Europe had major continent-wide cataclysms with WW1/2 in the 1900s; the Wars of Religion in the early 1600s; and the Hundred Years War + Black Death + Mongol Conquests in the 1300s. The Holy Roman Empire lasted from about 900 AD to around 1300 AD. The Roman Republic lasted about 500 years; the Roman Empire lasted another 400-500.

I think the logic might be that China just had their civilization-ending cataclysm, and so they're on the upswing now. Ditto Europe. This is probably not the end of the United States either, more like the Crisis of the 3rd Century. But it's just as logical to look back on the 400-year cycle and think "Better invest in the countries that have already had their crisis and dealt with it than ones that are starting to decay internally" than to look back on the last 75 years and think "Wow, that was chaotic, the next 75 years will be equally chaotic."

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all in for RISC-V, but ARM Holdings is British (and owned by the Japanese SoftBank group). ASML is in the The Netherlands. And there are some European ARM CPU vendors (NXP, ST Microelectronics, etc.). So Europe could also standardize on ARM without sovereignty issues?

Why risking doing that if you can go to ASML and those vendors to manucature you RISC which isnt owned by Softbank…

I think we should definitely invest in RISC-V, open is preferable, especially in a continent-wide initiative. I’m just contesting that the US could unilaterally sabotage ARM use in Europe.

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the goal is to decouple from the U.S., why would the EU want to collaborate with a totalitarian state like China?

Because RISC V results would be something the Europeans could produce? We are reliant on the US as only 2 companies can make the x86/64 chips. I don't think Europe would be completely against working with a US or Chinese company like Hi Five/Star Five, as long as we weren't dependent on them, and could pull ties if they abused their position of control.

> We are reliant on the US as only 2 companies can make the x86/64 chips.

The x86-64 architecture is on its way out globally thanks to Arm. RISC V is not needed for decoupling from the US.

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#158
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its specifically Softbank which might be japanese but its very much aligned with US and VC funds. It might as well be VC fund.

So what? What's the scenario here? The USA pressures Japan to stop selling licences to European Fabs? Why, what would push them to such extremes? Fabs can still produce those current designs (they just don't have licences). Now Europe can buy SoftBank out, or Britain can just walk into ARM Cambridge and say it's been sequested for the war effort.

Given ARM is mostly an IP bsaed company that wouldn't really work. For reference just look at what happened with ARM's china susidiary with which this basically happened.

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#159
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't ARM start in Europe?

in uk, so in continental europe, yes.

I've always thought of 'continental Europe' as meaning 'mainland Europe'. In other words excluding the disconnected parts like the UK. Regardless, the UK is in Europe.

Re: Europe bets once again on RISC-V for supercomputing

#160
post #118

China recently moved that direction. That would be nice collaboration to see between EU and China. China to publish policy to boost RISC-V chip use nationwide, sources say https://www.reuters.com/technology/china-publish-policy-boos...

If you ignore the military ambitions of China and the fact they’re openly sharing technology with Russia, perhaps. I don’t see anything but regret for Europe several decades from now if they decide to start providing China with the technical expertise they’re currently lacking in this space. This is all about China trying to find a way to escape the pressure of sanctions from Europe and the US.

The EU needs to build arms to defend itself that the US can't interfere with and knows less about, and so does China.
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