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Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

bbc.com

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Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#151

Post by 0_____0 »

lun4r wrote: post #47

If I were American, I’d be sick with shame. As a European, I’m disgusted—not just by your leadership, but by your silence. Your country is spiraling into disgrace, yet you sit there, watching, complaining online, doing nothing. Where is your outrage? Where are the millions in the streets forcing change? By staying silent, you are complicit. Just like the Russians who let Putin tighten his grip for decades, you are le…

We have too much to lose to do anything. It's not until we've lost a great deal of our freedom, our wealth, the basic guarantee of order in our land, that the formerly comfortable will finally act up.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#152

Post by hayst4ck »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #127

I got this weird dissonance - like this was a science from a TV show about the White House, because no-one, I mean no-one would ever do that inpublic. Apart from common courtesy, even basic management training says praise in public, criticise in private. Just doing this in front of the world’s media … it’s hard to understand

> it’s hard to understand

It's not. If you're a remotely rational American right now you are experiencing large amounts of grief.

This is just the denial stage of grief.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#154

Post by ajross »

TheAlchemist wrote: post #86

Zelensky just proved once again what real leadership looks like. He went to the White House knowing that they will try to do exactly that and yet he did it with his head held high and did not sign the deal. Amazing guy. This is also a historic day for the world. US dominance over the West is over. As a European, I will vote against any politician that keeps talking about EU-US special partnership and doesn't put 'EU…

> As a European, I will vote against any politician that keeps talking about EU-US special partnership and doesn't put 'EU First'.

Isn't that exactly the logic behind Trumpism though? "Our partners suck, we need to put our own interests first" is how you get isolation and trade wars. And sometimes real wars.

I mean, maybe that's where things are going. But "as a European" you should at least recognize that's the policy you're arguing for.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#155

Post by ein0p »

wg0 wrote: post #129

On a tangent - J.D Vance is lecturing Europe about freedom of speech while AFP is ousted for writing "Gulf of Mexico" as "Gulf of Mexico."

FYI: you can end up in jail for posting "wrong" things on Facebook in Europe and the UK. And the UK doesn't permit backup encryption. As far as freedom of speech, we have a _considerable_ advantage. In some European countries (including, ironically, Ukraine) you wouldn't even be able to criticize the government the way we do it here in the US.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#156

Post by smw »

duxup wrote: post #72

I wish the EU was more ... united. Most of the nations were woefully slow to act with Ukraine (hey let's send some token helmets). They've got a totalitarian regime invading democracies in their back yard but don't seem all that united about it ....

The EU has donated more to Ukraine's war effort than the US, despite coverage suggesting otherwise.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#159

Post by jimnotgym »

duxup wrote: post #72

I wish the EU was more ... united. Most of the nations were woefully slow to act with Ukraine (hey let's send some token helmets). They've got a totalitarian regime invading democracies in their back yard but don't seem all that united about it ....

I agree, but they have still sent more aid than the US

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#160

Post by matthest »

I don't agree with the execution, but here's what I think this is what Trump is really trying to do:

Right now, it's basically the US vs Russia and China.

But what Trump is betting on is that it could be the US + EU + Russia vs China.

In order for this to happen though, the EU must build their own military.

The EU could and should be a superpower, but they're not. Instead they're living off the US military.

The US has been gently trying to get EU to boost its own spending. This goes as far back as Obama, and maybe even further back.

The difference is that Obama was somewhat passive aggressive with his approach. Whereas Trump is tearing off the band aid.

The public belligerence and positioning against the EU is an effort to kick them out of the parents' basement and get their act together.

Now, what is he doing regarding Canada and Mexico? That I have 0 clue. And his current stance honestly seems stupid.

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