Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead • Hacker News Board

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#151

Post by strunz » Thu, Feb 13, 2025, 4:36 PM UTC

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #50

cogman10 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, I think it went too far. The fact is, you need buy in from other devs and if a dev won't buy in you need to work out a way to avoid them or avoid conflict. It sucks, it slows things down, but frankly making it a "them vs us" is a sure fire way to make them oppose any change you want to make. Public shaming even more disastrous as there's no better way to entrench someone in a position.

It's deeply ironic that he's complaining about kernel maintainers supposedly forming secret cliques. However... this is the same man who made a sock puppet V-Tuber account, and acts in every way like they are two people; even though they've accidentally on-stream shared the system username, shared they have exactly the same kernel version, same KDE configuration, same login, same time zone, even (if I recall correctl…

Wait, what? I haven't heard about any of this in all the articles I've read over this drama.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#152

Post by leidenfrost » Thu, Feb 13, 2025, 4:36 PM UTC

earnesti wrote: post #86

anonzzzies wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is pretty normal; in paid products I even find it's less aggressive than in free things. But I have a hard and frozen shell around my vital organs to just politely and friendly point to the place in queue and where to donate to speed it up. For $10k I will build your cpu temp proc, if that's not an option then it's in pos #17463 of my task list.

Yes. I was developing some open source stuff before venturing to for-profit closed Source Software, and I was surprised that the paying customers were on average much nicer than those who got their stuff for free! Great idea about the priority queue.

I tell my friends all the time: You want your product to be accessible? Sell cheap, but not too cheap.

Fair deals attract people with some money, but the almost-free only attract people who are forever broke, who live their life feeling entitled to everything being handed over to them.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#153

Post by seba_dos1 » Thu, Feb 13, 2025, 4:36 PM UTC

bayindirh wrote: post #134

galoisscobi wrote: post #13

> But then also came the entitled users. This time, it wasn’t about stealing games, it was about features. “When is Thunderbolt coming?” “Asahi is useless to me until I can use monitors over USB-C” “The battery life sucks compared to macOS” (nobody ever complained when compared to x86 laptops…) “I can’t even check my CPU temperature” (yes, I seriously got that one). This sounds so rough. I can't imagine pouring your…

[Putting my dusty Linux Distro Maintainer Hat on] First of all, I wholeheartedly applaud Marcan for carrying the project this far. They, both as individuals and as a team proper, did great things. What I can say is a rest is well deserved at this point, because he really poured his soul into this and worn himself down. On the other hand, I'll need to say something, however not in bad faith. He needs to stop fighting…

It's not just that "people are hard" - it was clear that this will end up this way the moment marcan started ranting on social media about having to send kernel patches via e-mails. Collaborating on software development is a social activity and stuff like convincing maintainers to trust you and your approach is just as important part of it (if not more important) as writing code. Not realizing that is a sure road to burnout (and yes, I'm just as guilty of that myself).

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#154

Post by ho_schi » Thu, Feb 13, 2025, 4:37 PM UTC

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #18

bezier-curve wrote: post #4

I think if I was indicted by Linus and told I'm a problem over spreading awareness about a position on social media, I too would burn out pretty quickly. That's how you crush motivation. There's a deeper issue in open-source culture where harshness and gatekeeping drive away passionate contributors.

"spreading awareness about a position" isn't a very accurate way to describe what happened. This is the guy who said he wanted to use social media to create a "hall of shame" for kernel developers. Of course Linus told him to knock it off, that's ridiculously unprofessional behavior.

Background Story

https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/a869236a-1d59-4524-a86b-be08a15...

    1. I think the the DMA maintainer is correct. Don't intertwine implementation languages, that is bad idea and a maintenance hell.  
    2. Social media "hall of shame" 
    3. Torvalds is forced to make a statement because of 2. Not 1.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#155

Post by gjsman-1000 » Thu, Feb 13, 2025, 4:37 PM UTC

strunz wrote: post #151

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's deeply ironic that he's complaining about kernel maintainers supposedly forming secret cliques. However... this is the same man who made a sock puppet V-Tuber account, and acts in every way like they are two people; even though they've accidentally on-stream shared the system username, shared they have exactly the same kernel version, same KDE configuration, same login, same time zone, even (if I recall correctl…

Wait, what? I haven't heard about any of this in all the articles I've read over this drama.

Asahi Lina.

This subject also gets inexplicably downvoted and flagged every time you bring it up on Hacker News (look at that, it just happened to my original post); but again, nobody can prove otherwise, and Marcan himself has never denied it, only thrown flames.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35234480

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32947939

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33792670

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35251905

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36107998

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35238601

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42990443

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37550189

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36231241

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#156

Post by jazzyjackson » Thu, Feb 13, 2025, 4:37 PM UTC

ycombinatornews wrote: post #96

jazzyjackson wrote: post #12

God bless. Asahi introduced me to fedora/gnome, it feels rock solid on my m1 MacBook, and it's now my daily driver on a 2014 Intel Mac mini Wishing I had donated before, I'll sign up for opencollective now. I can only imagine the anticlimactic nature of releasing the emulation stack for gaming [0] and not seeing any increase in interest financially. One wonders what funding might have made it more worthwhile than sim…

OT, Have you had any issues with WiFi setup with this Mac Mini? I tried multiple distributions and most of them have troubles with detecting WiFi chip on 2014 mini.

Oh that could be, I just have it hardwired. This machine was basically a dumpster dive and was sitting in my closet for the last few years til I found out it had USB3 and gigabit ethernet, did a SSD swap and its working great, but indeed I get "No Wi-Fi Adapter Found"

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#157

Post by e40 » Thu, Feb 13, 2025, 4:37 PM UTC

bayindirh wrote: post #134

galoisscobi wrote: post #13

> But then also came the entitled users. This time, it wasn’t about stealing games, it was about features. “When is Thunderbolt coming?” “Asahi is useless to me until I can use monitors over USB-C” “The battery life sucks compared to macOS” (nobody ever complained when compared to x86 laptops…) “I can’t even check my CPU temperature” (yes, I seriously got that one). This sounds so rough. I can't imagine pouring your…

[Putting my dusty Linux Distro Maintainer Hat on] First of all, I wholeheartedly applaud Marcan for carrying the project this far. They, both as individuals and as a team proper, did great things. What I can say is a rest is well deserved at this point, because he really poured his soul into this and worn himself down. On the other hand, I'll need to say something, however not in bad faith. He needs to stop fighting…

100% agree.

For the last few years, I've been saying the following regularly (to friends, family and coworkers): communication is the hardest thing humans will ever do. Period.

Going to the moon, launching rockets, building that amazing app... the hardest thing of all is communicating with other people to get it done.

As a founder (for 40+ years and counting) I manage a lot of different type of people and communication failures are the largest common thread.

Humans have a very, very tough time assuming the point of view of another. That is the root of terrible communication, but assumptions are right up there as a big second.

On the Marcan thing... I just want to say, control what you can and forget the rest (yes, this is direct from stoicism). Users boldly asking for features and not being grateful? Just ignore them. Getting your ego wrapped up in these requests (because that's what it is, even if he doesn't want to admit it), is folly.

I contributed to Marcan for more than a year. I was sad to see the way it ended. I wish him well.

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#158

Post by seigel » Thu, Feb 13, 2025, 4:37 PM UTC

Thank you for your efforts. Unfortunately people are people and the loudest are usually the complainers. I wish we, your supporters, were able to muster as loud of applause when the complaints come in, but we are too busy enjoying your work. Thank you again.

Sidenote: thank you also to all those project leads that put themselves out there. Not easy being the $h1t magnet.

<3

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#159

Post by School-Cotton » Thu, Feb 13, 2025, 4:38 PM UTC

throwway120385 wrote: post #132

surajrmal wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would need to completely reset to do that. Do BSDs even have rust support for their drivers?

I believe it's a microkernel, so in the sense that every driver is a separate userspace process, yes.

That’s not true. BSD (including all the existing flavors/descendants AFAIK) has a monolithic kernel.

Perhaps you’re confusing it with XNU? (Which is Mach merged with some BSD stuff).

Re: Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead

#160

Post by HankB99 » Thu, Feb 13, 2025, 4:38 PM UTC

bebop wrote: post #92

galoisscobi wrote: post #13

> But then also came the entitled users. This time, it wasn’t about stealing games, it was about features. “When is Thunderbolt coming?” “Asahi is useless to me until I can use monitors over USB-C” “The battery life sucks compared to macOS” (nobody ever complained when compared to x86 laptops…) “I can’t even check my CPU temperature” (yes, I seriously got that one). This sounds so rough. I can't imagine pouring your…

I work for a company that is open source and has a large community. I blows my mind (and often aggravates me) how rude some people can be. For some reason people feel that it is appropriate to throw barbs in their issue reports. Please to everyone out there, if you find an issue and want to report it (hurray open source!) please be kind with your words. There are real people on the other side of the issue. Always rem…

> I blows my mind (and often aggravates me) how rude some people can be.

That seems to be a general characteristic. I strive to be cheerful and helpful whenever I'm asking for something. I feel like (sadly) it sets me apart from the crowd and helps me to get what I'm asking for. And IAC, with so little effort on my part I may brighten someone else' day and that makes me happy.

Just last week I asked housekeeping at a hotel for an old style coffee pot since I had brought my own coffee and filters. I started with "Can I pester you a moment?" and the conversation went up from there. Housekeeping was extremely friendly and helpful. Later I guessed this might have been her way to disarm some of the typical hostile interchanges she's been the brunt of.