What's happening inside the NIH and NSF • Hacker News Board

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#151

Post by scarab92 » Wed, Feb 05, 2025, 12:47 AM UTC

flocciput wrote: post #108

alaxhn wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you don't think being forced to include a statement on diversity in every single grant request reviewed by the NIH was "injecting dumb politics" but you do think that being forced to NOT include a statement on diversity in every single grant request is?

> forced to NOT include == "not being allowed to include" i.e. a restriction on free speech with more worrying implications than "injecting dumb politics"

Diversity statements were used to facilitate race-based grant approvals. They should never have been legal.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#152

Post by fsckboy » Wed, Feb 05, 2025, 12:47 AM UTC

amelius wrote: post #89

ggm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to believe some will move for lifestyle reasons, but the problem is the post war IPO landscape (post 1980s really) across biotech and ICT has made one stark barrier: USA is a place where you can go from $100k to $100m vesting if you are lucky. That very few do achieve this isn't the point: you cannot do it, in almost any other economy. You have to be socially smart enough to see that a $100k salary and lifesty…

> USA is a place where you can go from $100k to $100m vesting if you are lucky. That very few do achieve this isn't the point: you cannot do it, in almost any other economy. That's a kind of lottery-mentality that Europe doesn't want to attract anyway.

>That's a kind of lottery-mentality that Europe doesn't want to attract anyway.

the problem with the European thinking you describe is not lottery vs sure-thing, it's the idea that everybody within a geography should should think the same way and not all mentalities "belong".

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#153

Post by ggm » Wed, Feb 05, 2025, 12:49 AM UTC

amelius wrote: post #89

ggm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to believe some will move for lifestyle reasons, but the problem is the post war IPO landscape (post 1980s really) across biotech and ICT has made one stark barrier: USA is a place where you can go from $100k to $100m vesting if you are lucky. That very few do achieve this isn't the point: you cannot do it, in almost any other economy. You have to be socially smart enough to see that a $100k salary and lifesty…

> USA is a place where you can go from $100k to $100m vesting if you are lucky. That very few do achieve this isn't the point: you cannot do it, in almost any other economy. That's a kind of lottery-mentality that Europe doesn't want to attract anyway.

I tend to agree, but having met some of the people who pursued this dream, they are very very inventive. They're smart. If that energy chasing a dream could be redirected, they'd be doing amazing things. Mostly, they wind up realizing that the goal is illusive, and re-pivot to a saner outcome but by that time they are fully vested in "america" as a plan.

The bounty here, is the people on the cusp of realizing its not going to pan out but who are both very smart, and smart enough to realize they need to pivot. It would be almost a given they are consciously walking away from IPO manna. I guess if you include it in the pre-sort on applicants, you get to winnow out the people still glued to money-is-the-prize.

BTW the EU would welcome more IPR inside the EU. Some amount of bonus may have to lie in the packaging, to get to where the EU wants to be on IPR. Novo Nordisk style.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#154

Post by switchbak » Wed, Feb 05, 2025, 12:49 AM UTC

unsnap_biceps wrote: post #12

dan_can_code wrote: post #3

The cynic in me thinks that the US is going to roll over and take this fascist shake down. The optimist in me thinks that the people will rise up with a resounding NO and do something about it. Right now I'm not sure which I believe.

I think the former is most likely. The people are largely unhappy with how things have been and it's unlikely to get materially worse for the majority of people in the near term, so I don't think there will be a fire lit under enough of the population to rise up. If it gets bad enough that most people are starving, rather then just struggling, we'll see action, but I doubt it'll get there anytime soon.

The president just threatened Greenland with military action. That is absolutely fucking unprecedented in living memory, and well before.

And that passed without much more than an exasperated sigh.

No, I think the populace will go along with whatever these folks deem acceptable. It’s like a bad movie.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#155

Post by throwfgtpwd234 » Wed, Feb 05, 2025, 12:49 AM UTC

electriclove wrote: post #121

yibg wrote: post #93

Part of me thinks this is just incompetence. People put in charge to "change" things without knowing what the thing is or does and just randomly mashing buttons.

I contend that there existed too much incompetence across what the government has been funding. I’m looking forward to a ‘change’ for more competence, efficiency, innovation, accountability, etc

What "competence"? What "efficiency"? What "innovation"? What "accountability"?

There is no accountability or efficiency in unelected technocrats blowing up what was working without a plan or subject matter expertise.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#156

Post by jltsiren » Wed, Feb 05, 2025, 12:51 AM UTC

Dalewyn wrote: post #47

unsnap_biceps wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the former is most likely. The people are largely unhappy with how things have been and it's unlikely to get materially worse for the majority of people in the near term, so I don't think there will be a fire lit under enough of the population to rise up. If it gets bad enough that most people are starving, rather then just struggling, we'll see action, but I doubt it'll get there anytime soon.

>The people are largely unhappy with how things have been This is an understatement to say the least, and the fact it's been denied and even refused by the powers that be until today is why the pendulum has swung as hard as it has. Americans wanted change, and they finally got it with ferocious retribution because it's been held back for so long.

More like Americans repeatedly vote for change, because the change they got four years earlier was too bad. It reminds me of Chile, which keeps oscillating between socialist and conservative presidents every four years.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#157

Post by jcgrillo » Wed, Feb 05, 2025, 12:51 AM UTC

RajT88 wrote: post #118

dan_can_code wrote: post #3

The cynic in me thinks that the US is going to roll over and take this fascist shake down. The optimist in me thinks that the people will rise up with a resounding NO and do something about it. Right now I'm not sure which I believe.

I live in the US; born here, lived here all my life. The former is 100% how it will go. The only question is: how bad will it get? A poster down thread mentions a million dead immigrants. I personally think it will just be in the low 6 figures. Maybe high 5 figures.

It wouldn't take much of that to completely destroy the U.S. food supply chain. Those 9 meals separating us all from anarchy will go by quick.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#158

Post by qwe----3 » Wed, Feb 05, 2025, 12:51 AM UTC

sseagull wrote: post #29

bawolff wrote: post #4

Seems like a good opportunity for other countries to recruit scientists. I think its underappreciated how much of America's modern success comes down to attracting scientists and intellectuals from war torn europe in the 30s-50s.

I’m a scientist currently on an NSF grant. I am certainly poking around other countries to see what’s out there, and I’m not the only one. A lot of scientists (at least in my field, computational chemistry) have decent skills that are transferrable to other areas. So I expect quite a few to move on.

Good luck getting 500k+ grants in other countries. If you leave there won't be a shortage of postdocs looking for a new tenure track position.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#159

Post by scarab92 » Wed, Feb 05, 2025, 12:52 AM UTC

username223 wrote: post #140

lanstin wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So should we move to Thailand or Canada or ???

Canada, the EU, Australia, ... Places with solid research institutions and less-dysfunctional governments.

CA, AU, and some EU countries are about to elect conservative governments

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#160

Post by qwe----3 » Wed, Feb 05, 2025, 12:52 AM UTC

amelius wrote: post #89

ggm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to believe some will move for lifestyle reasons, but the problem is the post war IPO landscape (post 1980s really) across biotech and ICT has made one stark barrier: USA is a place where you can go from $100k to $100m vesting if you are lucky. That very few do achieve this isn't the point: you cannot do it, in almost any other economy. You have to be socially smart enough to see that a $100k salary and lifesty…

> USA is a place where you can go from $100k to $100m vesting if you are lucky. That very few do achieve this isn't the point: you cannot do it, in almost any other economy. That's a kind of lottery-mentality that Europe doesn't want to attract anyway.

Yeah, in Germany the rich stay rich.