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The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

kranga.notion.site

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Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#151
post #133
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

really? i have seen very few positions in europe offering more than 50-70k a year, and i looked at hundreds. that includes seniors.

I assume you haven't looked at Switzerland?

As someone that lived two years in Switzerland and still goes there regularly, don't forget how much things actually cost, the high value is artificial given how much even basic supermarkt good cost.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#152

Interestingly, unlike many in this thread I would've avoided hiring this person based only on the code example. This code is almost unreadable to me, certainly to most on my team. I would request changes it if it was a PR going into production (ignoring that the problem itself is made up). The code I would've liked to see would be easy to read, easy to follow, and would make me understand the underlying rules that ma…

I have to agree. When I was junior decades ago, I saw all those cool one liners as some sort of holy grail and had huge respect for the authors, like we had 10KM HDDs so every char counts.

Then I realized how hard they are to debug once codebase looks like this, and any serious production code will get debugged to hell, no doubt there. Also implementing changes require same mindset, which is rare in teams generally, so its basically a technical debt right in creation.

KISS, the most important principle in any form of engineering is exact opposite of this. I've seen and experienced great success with it. I haven't seen that much success when ignored, apart from one man / tiny homogeneous team show.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#153
post #3

Here's my attempt, if OP can read this: https://github.com/TZubiri/fizzbuzz2.0 Apologies to the employers that I uploaded it to Github, but I was trying to keep my green squares thingy streak. I didn't upload the requirements so that it's harder to google/scrape into an LLM. My first note is that, the quality of the code was very high, evidently the code worked and it did so in a manner that introducing changes eithe…

You would also fail this specific task, as you clearly missed the first requirement that says maximum of 30 lines.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#154
post #133
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

really? i have seen very few positions in europe offering more than 50-70k a year, and i looked at hundreds. that includes seniors.

I assume you haven't looked at Switzerland?

i have only seen few offers from switzerland, and i didn't see anything that stood out. i am only looking at remote jobs though. that may skew my perception. i did notice that switzerland had a higher average compared to the rest of europe when looking at statistics.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#155
post #134

What a genuinely terrible interview. Seems like a great way to learn absolutely nothing about the candidate. I would have walked out half way through. These types of questions are very telling of an organization which is extremely insecure in its own abilities. For anyone who is a somewhat experienced programmer it is not hard to tell if someone else knows what he is talking about. You do not need to waste 45 minutes…

This rule alone would make me walk out: "New rules will be revealed one by one. The candidate should note them as there won’t be shown again" This feels more like a Squid Game parody than an interview. I interview people from all walks of life. I would definitely not have hired some of the best engineers I worked with if I was trying to be too clever and quirky when giving out requirements.

> if I was trying to be too clever and quirky...

You buried your lede IMO. The interviewers had this cute game and when the developer didn't play by the planned rules (build up a monsterous collections of branching on top of a for loop) they were screwed. Issues:

* rules revealed one by one. Spec changes and is always incomplete, but you never even hear about changing spec that your existing solution already handles.

* artificially handicaping developers. This is the opposite you want; it's a bad smell if developers are not offloading to rock solid libraries and language features

* punishing creativity. You're getting a great view into how this person works and thinks; isn't that a primary purpose of all interviews?

* anti-lookup / matrix. Some of the most efficient solutions use this aprooach, or an inherient property of the desired state/input (data as code). This is super-common in game development; John Carmack would have failed this interview too.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#157
post #134

What a genuinely terrible interview. Seems like a great way to learn absolutely nothing about the candidate. I would have walked out half way through. These types of questions are very telling of an organization which is extremely insecure in its own abilities. For anyone who is a somewhat experienced programmer it is not hard to tell if someone else knows what he is talking about. You do not need to waste 45 minutes…

This rule alone would make me walk out: "New rules will be revealed one by one. The candidate should note them as there won’t be shown again" This feels more like a Squid Game parody than an interview. I interview people from all walks of life. I would definitely not have hired some of the best engineers I worked with if I was trying to be too clever and quirky when giving out requirements.

It’s downright disrespectful! It would make for an interesting game show maybe, but certainly not an interview

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#158
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if an interviewer says "I don't think that will be a good idea" just take the hint that it won't be what the expect and change it. I'd like to underline this just in case the author reads the thread. He really does seem great and I wish all the best to him, but reading between the lines is a useful skill regardless of this specific situation. He says he doesn't speak English well, that might have played a role in t…

Good leadership starts with clearly communicating expectations. If your boss can not say "I want you to use this tool" or "use whatever you seem fit", but instead hints to you as to some possible drawbacks of certain tools he is bad at his job. There are multiple ways to read that suggestion. It can also be read as the interviewer saying he does not believe in the technical depth of the candidate, which can be taken…

what is this good leadership you speak of, where did you encounter that?

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#159
post #94

It's not that the candidate is underqualified, it's that they demonstrated more hacking skill than programming skill in that interview. I feel like the rules about program length were mistaken for coding golf rules? A small company hiring a programmer isn't looking for super clever type system hacks, they're looking for someone to crank out code to solve problems fast. It's not readable or efficient to use the type c…

The rules of this FizzBuzz say that you can't even use numbers and numeric operations.

They WERE expecting a clever solution.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#160
post #52
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if an interviewer says "I don't think that will be a good idea" just take the hint that it won't be what the expect and change it. I'd like to underline this just in case the author reads the thread. He really does seem great and I wish all the best to him, but reading between the lines is a useful skill regardless of this specific situation. He says he doesn't speak English well, that might have played a role in t…

Yeah, it's an English thing. A literal translation in Dutch would mean "explain yourself here", and if you'd change tack because of the question alone, it would seem like you really lack self-confidence. But after living in the UK for a bit, in the UK that is most likely an order.

> Yeah, it's an English thing. A literal translation in Dutch would mean "explain yourself here",

That's just patently untrue. The literal translation is "ik denk niet dat dat een goed idee is" and the better translation would be "dat is niet de bedoeling".

If I got told in an interview "dat is niet de bedoeling" I'd be damn sure to rework my solution because they're clearly trying to coax me towards whatever they're looking for. And in a way it is actually a nice thing of them, because they could just say nothing and fail me out of that round of interviews.

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