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Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

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Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#151

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

CalRobert wrote: post #54
1970-01-01 wrote: post #14

>The story focuses on a redesign of one intersection in this town. The case highlights how we’ve elevated the value of moving cars quickly at the expense of everything else, even in highly walkable areas. We should all expect this kind of regressing in walking. Pedestrians and cyclists don't seem to understand how this always will be a car-by-default country due to lifestyle. Yes, there are several cities bucking the…

I'm literally just trying to stop drivers from killing my kids when they bike to school. Some "lifestyle".

"Whether car, scooter, bike, or feet, look both ways before crossing a street"

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#153

Post by ed312 »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #6
rcpt wrote: post #4

> Drivers now do not want to get stuck at the light, so they are consistently running red lights Police stopped enforcing red lights all over California after covid. And getting cameras installed is a Herculean task.

The Texas government decided that red light cameras can't enforce the law. That's how car-brained we are. Muh privacy or something.

The core issue is those red light cameras create a persistent database of who is where, which is then sold at a marginal cost to whoever wants it to advertise to/manipulate/track a population. Adding cameras everywhere invites a dystopian nightmare vs better urban design and occasional traffic police would solve the same problem.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#154

Post by 1970-01-01 »

fwip wrote: post #114
1970-01-01 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with everything you said except your first sentence. Why should people rightfully expect walking and biking infra to be paid for when it contributes so little to their economy?

Because human beings care about things that aren't the economy. Do you actually evaluate all public spending on this sole metric, or just the things you don't personally desire?

Can you provide an example where road budget spending was overridden by public outcry and was completed to those expectations?

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#155

Post by s1artibartfast »

throwway120385 wrote: post #74
potato3732842 wrote: post #25

As a pedestrian I will take a busy light controlled intersection with a pedestrian scramble type walk signal over a busy 4-way stop where every single time. With the 4-way stop there is never a time in the cycle when all traffic is stopped. The drivers who are present are continuously paying attention to what other drivers are doing which robs them of situational awareness to note pedestrians. You can try and time it…

> With the walk signal there is a brief moment in time when the drivers are doing nothing but waiting for you and are all stopped so you as a pedestrian can account for them in preparation just before you get your signal and make your move. Having almost been hit a few times by drivers making a right turn on red, I can tell you the drivers never wait even if you have the right of way. You'll be lucky if they even loo…

You have never had a driver wait?

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#156

Post by rcpt »

moomin wrote: post #15
hombre_fatal wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Texas government decided that red light cameras can't enforce the law. That's how car-brained we are. Muh privacy or something.

Ironically, the right to privacy was questioned by Alito when he helped nullify Roe v Wade. It will be "interesting" to see what other things we consider private aren't private in the eyes of this court. And even more "interesting" to see the converse.

Interesting.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/roe-....

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#157

Post by floren »

the_sleaze_ wrote: post #107
simiones wrote: post #84

It's very strange to complain that cars run red lights, but somehow not stop signs. I expect that if the intersection were as empty as it was when he was filming, you'd easily find people driving at a similar speed regardless of the stop signs too.

I know it as the "California Roll" - to slow down but continue to cruise through stop signs.

That's old fashioned, the current "California roll" is to just continue at full speed through stop signs or red lights.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#158

Post by lofenfew »

kurthr wrote: post #66
UseofWeapons1 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to look this up. In California in particular, this is true, which surprised me. Per a random law firm: California’s yellow light law permits drivers to enter an intersection during a yellow light. No violation exists unless any part of the car is over the stopping line when the light turns red. However, the law encourages drivers to slow down before reaching the intersection. Whereas in, for example, Massachuse…

I'm wondering how you would know when the yellow light was going to come on. Do you have some sort of countdown, or innate knowledge? Because, otherwise do you just randomly stop at green lights guessing that a yellow light might come on? Or do you drive so slowly that you can stop in the width of the white line before a pedestrian crossing? Really, I'm trying to figure out how you don't ever enter just as a light tu…

> Do you have some sort of countdown, or innate knowledge?

often, in the form of the pedestrian signal.

> try to clear it before it turns red?

This is the rule in much of the world, yes.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#159

Post by prmoustache »

munchler wrote: post #78
hevang wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legality aside, is that not kind of the issue here? Lights in a high foot traffic area could incentivize people to speed up to make it before the red, which is less predictable and has cars traveling at faster speeds compared to a stop sign, which requires all cars to stop. Embellished yes, but point of the article showing that this intersection is now more dangerous to pedestrians stands imo.

Using stop lights to control this sort of high-traffic intersection is totally normal in the US. Stop signs are typically used for lower-traffic intersections. Subjectively speaking, I think drivers are more likely to obey a red light than a stop sign. Perhaps the author of this article is upset that the neighborhood now has more traffic than it used to, but that's a different issue.

No, drivers in that neighborhood were used to stop at every stop while now a lot are passing through that intersection much faster to avoid the red light.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#160

Post by np- »

bloak wrote: post #90
munchler wrote: post #11

> I captured two drivers ripping through red lights in that short span Video actually shows two cars entering the intersection on yellow lights, which is legal. The rest of the article seems similarly exaggerated. ---- Edit: For those who disagree, please be aware that the stop lines are out of frame, so both cars are already in the intersection before they're visible on the video. You can get a better picture of wha…

I've sometimes wondered what the exact rule is with red lights. Presumably you're allowed to continue moving forwards if the front of your vehicle passed the stop line before the light turned red. But if you stopped with the stop line passing through your vehicle are you allowed to start moving forwards again while the light is red? (Whether that would be a sensible thing to do would depend on whether you're driving…

If your vehicle is ever fully stopped past the line, and the light is red, that would be considered a “blocking the box” traffic violation in most jurisdictions. You technically should not have entered the intersection at all without the ability to fully clear it.
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