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I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

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Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#151
I had something similar happen to me, not threaten with expulsion and I kind of deserved it.

This was back in late 1990s, a group I was part of was getting a web site made on the school pages and I wanted to contribute. I ran my mouth about my dislike of the current site (I was a dumbass) and for some reason hosted the site on my local computer in my room which was accessible everywhere on the network. I wasn’t going to run it permanently, I just wanted to showcase it. That got me in some trouble, what I said got back too, I got my room connection disconnected because we weren’t supposed to run servers.

I apologized, obviously disabled the server, and eventually got reconnected.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't mention a lawyer casually. Just have the lawyer send a letter. Don't give them the option to call your bluff. People casually mention a lawyer so frequently it means nothing. Receiving a letter from an actual lawyer means everything.

Having a lawyer send a letter isn't an automatic win. Once you turn it into a legal threat you force them to escalate to their legal team. Reasonable lawyers would likely roll their eyes and talk the university back from this weird move, but you're not guaranteed reasonable lawyers on the other end. If they feel threatened they might start looking even deeper into into contracts you signed as a way to protect themsel…

Once lawyers are involved, they are always going to be the only winners.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#154

Why would the school admin go nuclear over a request to integrate with the registration system, a system that is clearly intended to be used by applications: > “The Student Web Service gives your application access to information in the Student database such as course data, registration data, section data, person data, and term data (general academic data).” It doesn't make any sense. Was there something left out of…

There are strict privacy laws (e.g. FERPA) which university administrators are terrified of violating and getting sued over. Meanwhile, most university "enterprise" software is a festering pile of shit. I'm very surprised by the extortion attempt, but sadly a massive overreaction doesn't much surprise me.

Something I have noticed about higher education admins is that they hire consultants to do every project

I came to understand that this is because the career positions have such great benefits, often the last bastion of pensions, that these people literally go there to die.

So they take no risks and don’t try anything. They hire a consultant and if it doesn’t work out the blame lies there.

They also get big budgets to implement the consultant solution, which is bloated and terrible, so the department head gets more money every year to support it

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The head coach of football gets paid $4mil a year (4x the president) and is the highest payed employee. The top 7 staff are all sports related. Is this, like, common in the US? It seems batshit insane to an outsider.

Yes, this is extremely common. On the one hand, yes, this is absolutely batshit insane. On the other hand, college sports are enormously popular; football games regularly play to sold out crowds of over 50,000, and during football season there will be games on TV all weekend (not just local ones). They bring in a lot of revenue and publicity for the university -- and the latter (debatably?) helps attract students to…

I'd never considered that a sports program could be revenue producing. That's quite interesting. Although it seems weird that higher education and (almost-professional) sports are so tightly coupled.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#156
I wanted to chime in with some advice that also can help in any situation involving long administrative processes. I'm sorry you're going through this and I really hope some of this can be helpful.

- Write stuff down! A paper trail is helpful both to prevent hearsay and keep your own timeline of events in check. Recency bias and the like are too common in stressful situations.

- Remember that you are one (1) human who needs food, sleep, and water.

- Reach out to the Ombud (at the HUB), professors, and other administrators you may know. Even within one department there can be mixups -- nevermind when university-wide policies (such as registration) come into play. Having someone who can help point you in the right direction will be invaluable.

- On that note, the HUB has free legal services; for better or worse, you aren't the first student to be in this position.

- I understand in another comment you said you're confident in UW Leadership's ability, but crucially, there is no such thing as a singular leadership. At a university that large, *even when everyone is working to help*, things can turn out bad. (It's like how a CEO can get fired and nothing changes at a company; the system has its own momentum.) It's hard to say what level of intervention needs to happen to resolve this -- School of CSE? Undergrad CS department? Registrar? UW President's Office? -- and each level will likely not know what the level above/around them can do.

  - (And if you do need to escalate, it might be worth reaching out to the Registrar's office directly, over email. I say this because they work at a university-wide level, separate from any school or department, and may have a more-final say on what any individual branch can do/not do w.r.t. your enrollment.)
- Hanlon's razor, or more optimistically, "assume good intention". Always. Even when someone has stated not-good intention. This will help in a few ways: keeping your tone cordial, clearing up miscommunication. Maybe someone genuinely misunderstands what you built, or has pressure on their end to uphold some policy, however arcane. But most importantly, this will give yourself a way to not feel cornered, and distance your day-to-day/identity/etc. from this situation.

- Remember that you are (likely still) one (1) human who needs food, sleep, and water. Those damn robots won't take over yet.

- Be careful what you post publicly! There is a reason the best PR teams stay silent. Less is more. Form a close group of people you trust to share information freely, and be very clear (to yourself) what your intention is with every public post. Is it to get validation/advice? Is it to put pressure on the university? The court of public opinion is a double edged sword! Not every interpretation needs to or will be true. (And employers, like the public, might interpret this situation positively or negatively. It's hard to say which way it will go!)

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#157
post #91

I went to UW a decade ago, and back then it was pretty common knowledge that you don't fuck with software and the class registration system. Registering for classes was really competitive and they were really strict about making sure that no one had an edge over anyone else by being able to write code. There were plenty of rumors of people being expelled for using scripts to try to get the classes they wanted right w…

I am somewhat surprised issues of scripting and trading even exist in the registration system. Staggering enrollment times over a few days, with new waves every 20 minutes or so, mostly solves scripting issues since you are only competing with a fraction of the student body now. Giving courses waitlists once they are full, instead of allowing people to just directly register once a spot frees up, makes trading impossible since if you could trade you could have just registered for the course anyways.

I understand that the registration system is probably old and tied up in tons of just as old management software, but if the university really cared the solutions should be there.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#158
post #7

Update: I immediately took down my class project site after receiving yesterday’s ultimatum. I still don’t think the simple demo site violated the letter or spirit of the registration rules, but I took it down because I always want to operate in good faith. They followed up today to thank me for doing it, but also indicated that they were putting a hold on my account anyway. As a result, I am not going to be able to…

Given all of the very public stories about university administrations and how they like to skirt the law/court system with their own tribunals and procedures and/or blackmail their own students to stay quiet why would you ever have a reason to have faith in them?

It's clear the ones running things do not care about their students. They care only about their bottom line and appearances. Don't let one or two nice administrators fool you. Get a lawyer.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#159
post #7

Update: I immediately took down my class project site after receiving yesterday’s ultimatum. I still don’t think the simple demo site violated the letter or spirit of the registration rules, but I took it down because I always want to operate in good faith. They followed up today to thank me for doing it, but also indicated that they were putting a hold on my account anyway. As a result, I am not going to be able to…

I'm a university professor, and this is batshit crazy. Who ? As in not "they" or "the university", but who within the university? Can you tell where the directive is coming from? If this comes from, say, the Provost's Office then this probably can't be handled internally. (The position of Provost is the #2 position at a university, and the provost usually runs the show while the President or Chancellor goes schmoozin…

Having worked in university administration before I would say that anyone who lasts as a manager is a professional politician, so expect them to have engineered a very good reason and possibly have allied with another department.

As manager pay is usually based on headcount instead of being aligned with good outcomes, they might just have threatened someone's mortgage payments. So, that manager might be willing to call in every favor and fight with everything they have got.

But yeah of course it's possible that they got into more trouble than they can handle.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#160
post #7

Update: I immediately took down my class project site after receiving yesterday’s ultimatum. I still don’t think the simple demo site violated the letter or spirit of the registration rules, but I took it down because I always want to operate in good faith. They followed up today to thank me for doing it, but also indicated that they were putting a hold on my account anyway. As a result, I am not going to be able to…

Be extremely careful about what you say online or to friends from now on. They may use anything against you.

Do not give any extra details about the project, do not comment on how it was made and what it used etc.

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