Earlier quoted context omitted.
They declared an emergency. It's typical in that scenario to be approved for whatever runway the pilot deems best... or golf course... or field.
According to the timeline I saw they were cleared before declaring an emergency. This means at the time of emergency the standard checklist required their gear had been locked and flaps set. Either they were not operating within regulation before they declared emergency, or they raised gear and retracted flaps below 900 AGL and decided to make an impossible turn instead of stabilizing their flight. I don't know what…
Why was there a wall near runway at S Korea plane crash airport?
151–160 of 365 posts
Re: Why was there a wall near runway at S Korea plane crash airport?
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a pilot. The airplane was sliding on the ground and the landing gear was not deployed. Too fast to stop but not fast enough to use the rudder for directional control. There was no realistic chance to change direction. If there had been enough engine power to control direction on the ground, there might also have been enough power to remain airborne, but based on limited information, that wasn't so. Under the circ…
> not fast enough to use the rudder for directional control. Sure about that? 160kt (how fast someone calculated it went off the end of the runway) is way above Vs1 for a 737, there should be plenty of rudder authority. Heck, Vapp is usually in the 130-150kt range.
If they were trying to take off again, there wasn’t any hope.
Re: Why was there a wall near runway at S Korea plane crash airport?
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ok but in an emergency all bets are off, the opposite direction is better than a crash landing. So you can't just assume 100% of landings are in one direction.
> Ok but in an emergency all bets are off, the opposite direction is better than a crash landing. Sure, but so is a highway, or a river. Doesn't mean those should be built to runway standards.
Re: Why was there a wall near runway at S Korea plane crash airport?
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
lol. People often have an idea that ATC actually controls what happens. They just give advisory guidance to pilots, who ultimately decide what to do. A clearance to land or the lack of one does not absolve the pilots from making their own judgments and decisions about how to conduct the navigation of the aircraft, and where and when to land. Usually, it’s a bad idea to not follow ATC guidance, but in the case of emer…
Don’t know why you are downvoted. I was even taught that if after reporting an emergency you are overwhelmed by information requests you should just mute the radio and focus on solving the emergency . ATCs job is to get everybody out of the way including themselves.
Re: Why was there a wall near runway at S Korea plane crash airport?
#155I don’t know why people keep fixating on this. Airplanes can’t skid out of the airport into the surrounding city. Mistakes were made, but this isn’t one of them. I suspect it is people trying to deflect blame from pilot error, which seems by far the most likely issue. They did none of the things you should do to stop a plane.
“keep fixating” may just be what’s rising to the surface in your algorithm. My own sense has been that the questions are pretty spread out.
Re: Why was there a wall near runway at S Korea plane crash airport?
#156Lots of airports have obstacles not far from the end of the runway. Burbank, Midway, Orange County are a few that come to mind. Why did they need to land when they did? Why did they need to land so soon after the mayday call? (only 8 minutes from mayday to crash, as I understand it) Why couldn't they land on a longer runway? Why did they land so far down the runway? What forced them to land in a clean configuration?…
Though, I am a little sceptical of the claims that it would have hugely reduced fatalities either way. Runway excursions into unmanaged terrain at that speed don't usually work out well for the passengers, even when the terrain appears relatively flat.
I'm not an airline pilot, but I'm still curious to see what caused such an unusual crash, since there doesn't seem to be any single issue that could have caused what happened. So far, my best uninformed guess is a combination of pilot error and bad luck: the approach wasn't stabilised, so they started executing a go-around, and THEN a multiple bird strike caused catastrophic damage to the right engine. This may have led to smoke in the cabin/cockpit which they interpreted as a fire (or some other issue, vibrations etc.) that made them decide to shut down the engine, but they shut down the wrong (left) engine. So now they think they have a dual engine failure. At this stage they obviously don't have time to run through paper procedures, and they put the plane into clean configuration to maximise glide and attempt a 180 to try and land back on the runway. Then they either couldn't or forgot to deploy the gear, and floated down the runway partly due to ground effect from being at an unusually high speed, thus landing at high speed almost halfway down the runway. Thoughts?
Re: Why was there a wall near runway at S Korea plane crash airport?
#157Feels like a “pieces of flair” issue. The runway should be as long as it’s required to be. If after (and before) the paved runway they need a length of open space, that should be however long it is required to be, too. Beyond that there could be a minefield, a pillow warehouse, an ocean, a mountain, etc. It shouldn’t matter.
Only infinity billions of dollars for each airport and likely cause other issues, but, progress!
Re: Why was there a wall near runway at S Korea plane crash airport?
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In the video it looked like the plane was only running on the rear landing gears, Are we talking about the same crash? In the video I have seen[1] the plane appears to be on its belly dragging on the runway. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJY7oaZpxDU
True! I misremembered, in the longer video it's hard to see that the nacelles are dragging on the ground all the way. Still doesn't seem to slow down much.
As you can see, it actually isn't touching the ground for quite some time, it looks like it because one of the engines is smoking and the plane is throwing up dust etc from the ground as it floats above. Pure guessing on my part as someone who isn't involved in aviation but spent a good 6 hours looking into this crash: Pilots tried to go around, put the plane in go around config, couldn't, didn't know what to do, and watched the berm come at them. Extremely sad.
How both engines failed? We won't know til blackbox I guess, either pilot error or the bird strike was nuts and took out both engines, also some speculation the go around thrust caused a compressor stall. It looks to my uneducated eyes, from the first video, the left engine is not in great shape. Either way, very awful situation.
Re: Why was there a wall near runway at S Korea plane crash airport?
#159The wall is a red herring. The plane landed halfway down the runway at high speed. Something bad is going to happen if you do that at any runway on earth. In SFO you'll end up in the bay or hit the terminal depending on the orientation. In Toronto you'll crash into a highway. Stop looking at the wall and look at the minutes before the crash.
Re: Why was there a wall near runway at S Korea plane crash airport?
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Ok but in an emergency all bets are off, the opposite direction is better than a crash landing. Sure, but so is a highway, or a river. Doesn't mean those should be built to runway standards.
Ok but this is a runway. It should be built to runway standards!