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38th Chaos Communication Congress

events.ccc.de

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Re: 38th Chaos Communication Congress

#151

Post by diggan »

seb1204 wrote: post #100
jdndene wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How was it not fair? While I would prefer limiting the attendence by price and not by come first, get first, I understand their reasoning But getting a ticket this year was very easy, I got three on two separate occasions.

By price? So only the rich kids can go? Sounds really the opposite attitude than what I hear from CCC folks

There are "friends" tickets (or called something similar) since they want everyone to be able to come, regardless of socioeconomic background.

I feel like if there is any organization trying to make the conference audience as broad as possible, it's probably CCC.

Re: 38th Chaos Communication Congress

#152

Post by diggan »

davrosthedalek wrote: post #91
Y_Y wrote: post #9

I love watching CCC every years though I rarely catch it live. Since we have a couple of days to wait for this year's talk, I'll ask. Does it bother anyone else that some talks are in German, or does it bother anyone else that they find themselves bothered that the talks are in German? I love all languages great and small, natural and formal and so I'm conflicted on subjects like this. I find young German speakers to…

As a native German speaker living in the US, I have mixed feelings: - Talks in German feel slightly less, hmm, professional? Maybe it's the field I grow up in (physics). Like, ok, in your studies you speak German, but when you grow up and go to big-boy conferences, it's English. The Congress should be big-boy league. - Also, realistically, many technical terms are English, so the a German talk might have to make hard…

> The Congress should be big-boy league.

I'm not sure how many people actively involved with the community who agrees with this. It's a grassroots movement and I'm fairly sure many (most?) people want it to remain as such.

Re: 38th Chaos Communication Congress

#153

Post by aveao »

pantalaimon wrote: post #40
dewey wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are part of a hacker space you could always get tickets through that quite easily. I think it’s great that they are supporting their original core audience like that.

Those hacker spaces only get a limited contingent too, and the hacker space will expect you to help set up their assembly if you get the ticket through them.

I'm a paying, full member of muccc (munich) and ccchh (hamburg), and neither expect you to help with assembly if you get tickets thru them.

Re: 38th Chaos Communication Congress

#154

Post by DanielleMolloy »

pantalaimon wrote: post #40
dewey wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are part of a hacker space you could always get tickets through that quite easily. I think it’s great that they are supporting their original core audience like that.

Those hacker spaces only get a limited contingent too, and the hacker space will expect you to help set up their assembly if you get the ticket through them.

Where was that, and when? I got tickets through hackerspaces and was never expected to do anything for them.

Re: 38th Chaos Communication Congress

#155

Post by DanielleMolloy »

aveao wrote: post #131
weinzierl wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I have heard it used to be quite easy to get tickets in the previous post-pandemic years. Before the pandemic and especially before Leipzig it used to be very hard sometimes. Now is the first year that seems to me where demand picked up it was not a given to get a ticket. This might have contributed to find the system unfair.

There was only one other congress after the pandemic and that was 37c3 (last year). That one indeed did not sell out and was an outliar. I did go to 36c3 (end of dec 2019, right before pandemic) and the difficulty of buying tickets was the same as this year.

Interesting that it did not sell out. I've heard there was a lot of concern in the community about covid.

Re: 38th Chaos Communication Congress

#156

Post by aveao »

pantalaimon wrote: post #37
jazzyjackson wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really a pretty strong web of trust system, if you know anyone who's volunteered previous years there are vouchers floating around by word of mouth. If you don't know anyone in the community, purchasing a ticket online is a crapshoot. IMO this is a feature not a bug.

It’s an inventive to volunteer

Other way around: Easier tickets is an incentive for volunteers, as a bit of a payment in kind. It helps people known to volunteer come back, and it encourages them to keep volunteering year after year. You need to work, honestly, ridiculous amounts of hours to get a voucher (15-20 hours), and so it'd not be a very good incentive for average person.

You can absolutely get tickets on public sales by knowing when sales start, refreshing on the dot and doing the captcha as fast as you can. Reducing your latency (ethernet, fresh browser profile without extensions) helps. Add some friends into the mix and you'll get all the tickets you need.

Re: 38th Chaos Communication Congress

#158

Post by davrosthedalek »

lispm wrote: post #134
davrosthedalek wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this gives an accurate picture. Even a 5% party can have an outsized influence on the politics. And it's not clear what the next election will bring. > Anti-capitalism is found in right-wing parties, too. Like the German AFD. Well, many/most of their proponents now seem to be fans of an older party which had national socialism in the name, so no surprise. In reality, the market rules and social net in m…

> Even a 5% party can have an outsized influence on the politics Die Linke does not have an "outsized influence". It's also shrinking. It may seem to have "outsized influence" for someone from the US or the UK, with their different voting system, which practically creates a two-party system. In a proportional representation system smaller parties have influence, too - for example by being a coalition member. Die Link…

> Die Linke does not have an "outsized influence". It's also shrinking.

Yes, it's shrinking because Sarah exited left, came back in on the right, and now has her own party with blackjack and racists.

> It may seem to have "outsized influence" for someone from the US or the UK, with their different voting system, which practically creates a two-party system. In a proportional representation system smaller parties have influence, too - for example by being a coalition member.

Well, my point is that without explanation, 5% sounds like "completely irrelevant" for many people. So I guess we are in agreement. But even if you are familiar with the German system, do you not think that both FDP and Greens had an outsized influence in the just ending coalition compared to the SPD, in relation to their relative voting percentage? And historically, the FDP and CSU have a lot more influence that what would be proportional to their vote share compared to the bigger partners. I am not saying this is bad, I am saying that even a 5% party can have a relatively large impact on politics in the German system.

Die Linke has not been in a coalition on the Bund level, but it certainly was so in the Laender. While Laender are a lot less powerful compared to US states, that's not nothing.

>That's a very narrow view. Try to get a German-style workers council at an US company. Good luck!

Implementation detail. An alternative are strong unions. Some US unions are stronger than German unions. Ask the teachers about the "Dritte Weg".

My point is not: US and Germany are the same. My point is: It's a gradual difference. Not a complete systems change.

Re: 38th Chaos Communication Congress

#159

Post by bratwurst3000 »

davrosthedalek wrote: post #129
mr_mitm wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give an example of a thought that cannot be expressed in English? That sounds like quite the claim without anything backing it up. I speak fluent German for what it's worth.

For what it's worth, I only have an example for the other way around: Accuracy vs precision. It's "Genauigkeit". But there is a subtle difference in meaning in English that is lost in German without additional explanation.

you can translate many english „complicated“ words one to one in german because german has a anglo saxon in it. for example accuracy is akkurat precission is prezision hypocrite is hypokrit etc

german has a crazy big vocabulary but most words arent used and in generell the language is simplified in everyday use. for example everyone has angst but noone has bange anymore. btw good word for anxious in german.

i once also had the impression that many nuances are lost in translation but then i had to realize germans are not using all the words of the vocabulary.

Re: 38th Chaos Communication Congress

#160

Post by DanielleMolloy »

Zolomon wrote: post #5

The ticketing system was horrible, it really was not fair this year around.

The underlying problem is the lack of tickets.

The only way accommodate more attendees and grow would have been to move permanently to a fairground like Leipzig. Unfortunately, there seems to be no willingness to do so. I found the Leipzig events phenomenal and would like to understand the reasons behind this decision, but can only find speculation.. maybe fairgrounds are simply too expensive?

Leipzig’s hotel situation is worse due to having to connect to the fairground outside town. However, due to Leipzigs location at the intersection of two major historic European trade routes (fyi: via imperii and via regia, still has the largest head railway station in Europe), it has much better connections than Hamburg to the rest of Germany and Europe, including Berlin. Also Leipzig (and the fairground itself) have train connections to three airports including BER..

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