Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

archaeologymag.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 310 posts

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#151

Post by vintagedave »

3pt14159 wrote: post #94
kibwen wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even today plenty of Christian sects refuse to recognize the council of Nicaea's interpretation of the trinity, including the Mormons and the Jehovah's witnesses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontrinitarianism (Whether or not any of these flirt with polytheism is up for debate.) Meanwhile, the Catholic church's own profusion of saints whom you are supposed to beseech for specific blessings is dangerously close to a…

> is dangerously close to a polytheistic practice in its own right. I don't really think so. We're supposed to pray with Mary to God and everyone recognizes that all of creation came through Christ, not Mary or any other saint.

I was taught as a child, and this was Protestant with a clear anti-Catholic bias, that:

* Catholics prayed _to_ Mary (eg asking to intercede on your behalf);

* This was speaking to the dead, and expecting a response, and thus a sin in some way I am not sure of.

I'm guessing you're Catholic from your response; would you mind explaining to this somewhat lost person how Catholics view these two topics please? (I've never heard a good explanation, and even praying "with" Mary is new to me.) I admire Catholicism and wish I felt more trust in it, which is something that comes from childhood indoctrination, I know. Things stick into adulthood even when you're consciously aware of their root. So I'm keen to hear countering views :)

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#153

Post by FearNotDaniel »

kevinmchugh wrote: post #67
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily, they consider themselves right / proper or just prefer it over other flavours though (example being the many branches of Protestantism where each branch has a slightly different take on how things should be done, but it's not like they're at odds with each other per se)

Protestants all find their differences of opinion a big enough deal that they'll break up over it. They're not fighting wars I've doctrinal differences any more, but who in Christendom is these days? https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2005/sep/29/comedy.religio...

Goodness, where to start… I don’t have time to read your link so I’ll only reply to what you wrote from my own direct personal experience:

- many Protestant groups, while not fighting wars of physical violence, still harbour very unchristian hate in their hearts towards other Protestant sects and (usually) towards all Catholics, whom they consider to be idol worshippers led astray by Satan himself (sadly many Catholics also still feel the same about all Protestants and many other Catholics who don’t play the right music, wear the right vestments or worship in the right language and or precise form of words.)

- on the other hand, many, many Protestants and Catholics are also working to resolve or otherwise sideline those “debatable things” and “foolish controversies” that St Paul advised the churches not to quarrel about (he didn’t say what, specifically, but then this is supposed to be a faith based on love and grace rather than legalism). I’ve been to large events where Catholics and Protestants are worshipping, witnessing and praying joyfully together and seeking to find the similarities and not the differences, without compromising on the fundamentals of what it means to follow Jesus. And these kinds of movements are growing around the world year upon year and also working together to fight social injustice, inequality and poverty

— hopefully soon, more of our Orthodox brothers and sisters will get on board with this, but there are glimmers of hope in that direction too, as long as nobody says the word “Filioque” ;-)

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#154

Post by elevaet »

eschulz wrote: post #123

But what language is used for the inscription on the rolled silver amulet?

The article said Latin, but I don't know what script that is. It looks like it was written right-to-left so maybe it's Latin written in Hebrew script? I'm not even sure if that was a thing.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#155

Post by ImJamal »

wslh wrote: post #134
bjackman wrote: post #28

I find it pretty cool how the spread of Christianity can be tracked so finely that a 50 update in earliest arrival time is exciting! I started listening to a podcast called "the history of the early church" to learn a bit more about that but unfortunately I think the target audience was Christians interested in theology rather than nerds interested in history. Recommendations for books etc are welcome!

I think one of the oldest historical mentions of Jesus is by Josephus [1][2]. There is, however, scholarly discussion about whether parts of his references to Jesus were altered by later Christian scribes [3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus [3] https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=jose...

The traditional view held by Christians is that the Gospel of Matthew was written within 10 years of Jesus' death. Modern scholars (often atheists) do not believe it though.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#156

Post by wslh »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #145
wslh wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one of the oldest historical mentions of Jesus is by Josephus [1][2]. There is, however, scholarly discussion about whether parts of his references to Jesus were altered by later Christian scribes [3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus [3] https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=jose...

The Didache predates Josephus.

I understand that the Didache doesn't mention Jesus itself.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#157

Post by lazide »

noworriesnate wrote: post #108
throaway2501 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel doesn’t allow Messianic Jews to be citizens for this reason.

So I'm confused--are you saying that Israel thinks Messianic Jews are not Jews because they abandoned their faith or something like that, OR are you saying that Israel doesn't let Messianic Jews to be citizens because sometimes non-Jews convert to become Messianic Jews?

It sounds like a variation of a - not so much that they abandoned their faith, per-se, but that the faith they espouse as being Jewish is not acceptably ‘in the same room’ as other Jewish faith.

It would be somewhat like saying you were a Messianic Christian because you believed that Mohammed was a later prophet. There is a word for that kind of religion, and it isn’t Christianity.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#158

Post by joshuamcginnis »

bdcravens wrote: post #7
FearNotDaniel wrote: post #3

Fascinating from both a technological and theological/ecclesiological perspective. I'll be sure to pass this on to some of my faith-filled friends who now live south of the Alps but have roots in the same region. > inhumation burials — a practice uncommon in other Roman cemeteries in Frankfurt To save others looking it up: "inhumation burial" seems to be a technical term in the field for what we simply call "burial",…

My wife is Messianic Jewish, where the primary intent is to restore Jewish traditions and beliefs while still believing in Jesus/Yeshua ("Jesus" being essentially a mispronunciation; the westernized version of the name would more accurately be "Joshua"). Personally my beliefs lie elsewhere, but it's still unfortunate that "denomination" is still such a tiny minority, given its desire to be a purer form of the religio…

I have a lot of respect for Messianic Jews; they're struggle is real. I wish more Jews knew just how Jewish the story of Jesus actually is. As far as Christians are concerned, Jesus is the fulfillment of the messianic prophecies in the old testament. Jesus said, "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." (Matthew 5:18)

That said, there is arguably no simpler or purer form of Christianity than simply having faith in and a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#159

Post by lucozade »

ordinaryradical wrote: post #121
cogman10 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the more interesting pieces of evidence in the Bible. The Roman census that required every family go back to their hometown did not happen (why would it?). Romans kept very good records of censuses and such an event would be well covered. So why does the Bible have this story? The best guess is that Jesus was well known to have come from Nazareth. Yet the older messianic texts say the Messiah would be from Bet…

Before you tie yourself in this knot it might be useful just to look and see if there was a Roman census in that time period: "When I administered my thirteenth consulate (2 B.C.E.), the senate and Equestrian order and Roman people all called me father of the country, and voted that the same be inscribed in the vestibule of my temple"[0] [0] http://classics.mit.edu/Augustus/deeds.html

That doesn't describe a census or anything like it. There is absolutely no evidence there was a census covering the Roman empire let alone the whole world (as actually stated in gLuke).

However, there was a census of Judea ordered by Quirinius when Herod Archelaus was kicked out in 6AD. And that makes sense because, prior to that time, Judea was a client state so Rome would not have directly taxed it. Once it became a province, it would be subject to direct taxation and, hence, would have needed a census to determine the taxable population.

So, by far the most likely scenario is that the author of gLuke was referring to this census but got his facts a bit wrong. He made way bigger whoppers than that one.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#160

Post by FearNotDaniel »

kevinmchugh wrote: post #67
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily, they consider themselves right / proper or just prefer it over other flavours though (example being the many branches of Protestantism where each branch has a slightly different take on how things should be done, but it's not like they're at odds with each other per se)

Protestants all find their differences of opinion a big enough deal that they'll break up over it. They're not fighting wars I've doctrinal differences any more, but who in Christendom is these days? https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2005/sep/29/comedy.religio...

Ah yes, I had a chance to read it while walking down the street. I know that joke, reminds me of the one my dad used to delight in telling, which ends with “I must be the luckiest Arab in Belfast”.

Funnily enough the exact one that you posted is these days repeated by many churches somewhere during the Alpha Course, which after pausing for laughs is identified as an example of exactly not what you are being invited to believe.

Post reply on HN