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Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

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Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#151

Post by JohnFen »

the_snooze wrote: post #104
xscott wrote: post #6

The other one I'm seeing lately is a semi-stealth "service charge" on the bill. Something like 18% to 20% added to the bill without really standing out. This used to be something they'd do for "larger parties", but now I'm seeing it even when I'm eating solo. This makes for an uncomfortable situation where I now have to ask the waiter or bartender if they receive this as a tip. Then I need to decide if I want to tip…

>This makes for an uncomfortable situation where I now have to ask the waiter or bartender if they receive this as a tip. I don't even ask. If it looks like a tip and is computed like a tip, it is one. How the owners and workers hash out their payment structure is none of my business as a customer.

If I'm tipping, my intention is that the money goes to the workers, not the establishment -- so it is my business as a customer. A tip is a gift, and I want to know that the gift is going to who I intend for it to go to.

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#152

Post by mindslight »

Two4 wrote: post #125
xscott wrote: post #6

The other one I'm seeing lately is a semi-stealth "service charge" on the bill. Something like 18% to 20% added to the bill without really standing out. This used to be something they'd do for "larger parties", but now I'm seeing it even when I'm eating solo. This makes for an uncomfortable situation where I now have to ask the waiter or bartender if they receive this as a tip. Then I need to decide if I want to tip…

I don't get why the US doesn't have basic consumer protections, like products and services must be advertised at their total cost to consumer. Why not have supermarket prices marked with sales tax included? Why allow companies to advertise one price and charge another? Why is this not a voter issue?

Because consumer protections would be heavy-handed government intervention that might prevent the invisible hand of the free market from being able to innovate whether it's more efficient to pick your left pocket or your right pocket.

Though that never ending fountain of new money being handed out to banks and other centralized entities to create an inflation treadmill that destroys people's ability to interact with the market in a deliberate manner (eg investigating how a restaurant handles tips before going there, or spending time choosing a different restaurant if the first one is not transparent). That treadmill is definitely not to be considered government meddling, somehow.

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#153

Post by JohnFen »

jghn wrote: post #25
xscott wrote: post #6

The other one I'm seeing lately is a semi-stealth "service charge" on the bill. Something like 18% to 20% added to the bill without really standing out. This used to be something they'd do for "larger parties", but now I'm seeing it even when I'm eating solo. This makes for an uncomfortable situation where I now have to ask the waiter or bartender if they receive this as a tip. Then I need to decide if I want to tip…

When this started showing up near me the places that did it trained their staff to tell you up front that it was on there. They'd make a comment that you can add extra if you wish, but no obligation to do so. Over time I've found more and more they just don't mention it at all. More than once I got home and realized I tipped on top of the total + service charge: "Why was that about $100 more than I thought it'd be?",…

> Far more common here are ~3% "kitchen appreciation fees" that get paid directly to the kitchen staff. I'm AOK with these but some people really complain about them.

I am 100% opposed to this. It's manipulative at best. The right way to do it is to pay the staff more and increase the prices. At least that would be upfront and respectable.

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#154

Post by collingreen »

mindslight wrote: post #152
Two4 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why the US doesn't have basic consumer protections, like products and services must be advertised at their total cost to consumer. Why not have supermarket prices marked with sales tax included? Why allow companies to advertise one price and charge another? Why is this not a voter issue?

Because consumer protections would be heavy-handed government intervention that might prevent the invisible hand of the free market from being able to innovate whether it's more efficient to pick your left pocket or your right pocket. Though that never ending fountain of new money being handed out to banks and other centralized entities to create an inflation treadmill that destroys people's ability to interact with…

Thanks for voicing my bitterness

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#155

Post by btilly »

GuB-42 wrote: post #76
btilly wrote: post #8

The worst service that I ever received was in France, where tips were mandatory and could not be varied. I've never been so offended at being asked to tip as when it was done by the smug jerk who had just arranged to make sure that I didn't enjoy my meal, and who knew that they would get their full cut of my unhappy experience. I have no problem tipping in the moment. And sometimes for very different amounts than exp…

You probably fell in some tourist trap or something. I hope you didn't tip. Tips are absolutely not mandatory in France. You pay for what you order at the price you see on the menu and nothing more. Small tips are appreciated but not expected. I am French, I have eaten in many restaurants of all kinds and I have never been asked to tip and I tip only occasionally. As for surcharges, they sometimes happen, for example…

Yes, this was Paris. It was a 15% tip. That happened a bit over 20 years ago.

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#156

Post by bdangubic »

EricE wrote: post #141
bdangubic wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's all fine - businesses can be within their right to do whatever they please. However, myself and myriad of other people will simply go elsewhere where we are not charged different for the same product/service depending on the method of payment we choose :)

And you will pay more. Local gas station beats Costco by $0.10 a gallon if you pay cash. Which I happily do.

I stopped needing gas long time ago but if I needed gas I sure as heck am not going anywhere where I can save $0.10 to pay in cash (probably spend 2x that in gas needed to get to the gas station to save $0.10 per gallon). or for that matter ain't going to any place that has a different price depending on my method of payment.

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#157

Post by bdangubic »

TheDong wrote: post #149
bdangubic wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. yes 2. never said that. usage of credit cards should 100% NOT be free. the businesses should however offer it and pay whatever that costs

> the businesses should however offer it and pay whatever that costs So, in other words, you're in favor of a minor tax on those worse off than you, with poor credit score or otherwise can't get a credit card, so that you don't have to think about how your credit card company is ripping the merchant off. If the business doesn't write that "3% for credit card users" down, and 90% of their customers use credit cards, t…

> So, in other words, you're in favor of a minor tax on those worse off than you, with poor credit score or otherwise can't get a credit card, so that you don't have to think about how your credit card company is ripping the merchant off.

ugh I am not saying any of this... if you have cash - pay with cash. I do not want to get a benefit for paying with a card (though of course more and more places do not even take cash any longer) and when I say card I don't mean actual credit card, debit card works just as well. just don't charge me any different

> If the business doesn't write that "3% for credit card users" down, and 90% of their customers use credit cards, their logical next step is to instead increase the price of all items by 2.7%, which lets you save a minor amount of money by screwing over those who are worse off.

This is their problem, not mine. If they want to charge extra - that is fine. I won't pay extra. If every business charges extra than I won't have a choice but as long as there are places that don't I am spending my money there.

> If you just actively want to worsen the life of poorer people for your own benefit, well, I guess you're at least on the right site for it.

Where are you getting this from? why am I worsening life or poorer people?! What if a poor person does not have any cash on them but has a debit card - we gonna punish them for not carrying cash around?! It seems like you are arguing the opposite here or just assuming poor person = I carry wads of cash with me everywhere...?

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#158

Post by HDThoreaun »

jghn wrote: post #36
StanislavPetrov wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The other reason being it involves a degree of social pressure and shame, if one doesn’t tip enough. It's standard to tip 15% for decent service in a restaurant(sans win). You are of course free to tip more for good service or less for crappy service, but unless your experience is truly exceptional (in either a good or bad way) you can never go wrong with 15%. This is standard any US restaurant where you sit down an…

> It's standard to tip 15% for decent service in a restaurant This is not true, and hasn't been for some time [1] [1] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Average-reported-tip-rat...

Depends on the state since some are increasing base tipped wage. In california tipped workers get $15/hr plus tips so many have decreased tip to 15%

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#159

Post by HDThoreaun »

dataflow wrote: post #60
rabuse wrote: post #4

I'll never tip on those things if it's not your typical tipped position, like a bartender, waitress, etc. Pay your employees.

What do you do for coffee shops? Or restaurants that ask for payment & tip first, then bring you your food, and don't do anything else?

I dont tip.

Re: Tip pressure might work in the moment, but customers are less likely to return

#160

Post by rootusrootus »

kelipso wrote: post #148
britzkopf wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this rule get circumvented?

Waiters getting fired (or some other consequences) if they don't make the minimum wage through tips.

The problem with that claim is how tight the correlation is between low tips and poor performance.
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