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A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

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Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#151

Post by Propelloni »

thrance wrote: post #95
qayxc wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare to the PAST, not the present! As you can see, the trend is downwards and steadily at that: https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Economic-Sectors-Enterpris... Rome wasn't built in a day and I find it hilarious to advocate for nuclear power instead, if the average construction time (not even taking into account the prior mountain of bureaucracy) is over a decade. Not a single nuclear power plant built in past 15 y…

Strategically speaking, Europe lacks the natural resources to build renewable, wind turbines and solar panels have to be imported, most of them from Asia. Nuclear is still a bit cheaper per Watt and less carbon intensive, as it involves less infrastructure, logistics and batteries overall. It's also somewhat more reliable, as it doesn't depend on sun or wind (the former of which France often lacks). Also, I am hopefu…

> Nuclear is still a bit cheaper per Watt

LCOE [1] of nuclear power in Europe and the USA is roughly thrice that of solar or wind [2]. In China it is about even. If you do not trust the Deutsche Bank report, the World Nuclear Association comes to roughly the same conclusion but assumes a lower discount, thus making nuclear power more attractive. [3]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levelized_cost_of_electricity [2] https://www.dbresearch.de/PROD/RPS_DE-PROD/PROD0000000000528... [3] https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/economic-aspec...

Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#152

Post by [deleted] »

briandear wrote: post #15
insane_dreamer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if it wasn't for France having primarily used nuclear power decades ago, Europe as a whole would be in a much much worse state when it comes to CO2 emissions. That makes it abundantly clear that nuclear needs to be a part of the mix when it comes to non-emission generating energy production.

Any data on how much France has slowed the decrease of global temperatures? Is there a “nuclear power to degrees saved” converter?

[deleted]

Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#153

Post by sixthDot »

rjmunro wrote: post #141

It's a nice UI, and there is interesting data in there, but I think it is just an static estimate of averages, rather than something linked to actual live data like http://gridwatch.co.uk/ or https://gridwatch.templar.co.uk/france/ It's not super clear. It says it's using 2 hour slots, but there's no clock saying when it was last updated or anything.

Also the name of the power plants is missing, on top of the fact that the data is outdated. For example after a little check I see that the Fessenheim PP (France) is still represented, although it's not producing anymore.

Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#154

Post by preisschild »

rjmunro wrote: post #141

It's a nice UI, and there is interesting data in there, but I think it is just an static estimate of averages, rather than something linked to actual live data like http://gridwatch.co.uk/ or https://gridwatch.templar.co.uk/france/ It's not super clear. It says it's using 2 hour slots, but there's no clock saying when it was last updated or anything.

Also ElectricityMaps:

https://app.electricitymaps.com/

Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#155

Post by preisschild »

moooo99 wrote: post #75
insane_dreamer wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not counting the energy outflows from France to neighboring countries. Also, France gets 70% of its energy from nuclear, not 40%.

> Also, France gets 70% of its energy from nuclear, not 40%. No, it gets 70% of its electricity from nuclear.

Yeah, France could invest a lot more into nuclear-heat usage directly (e.g. for district heating or providing process heat to factories) without needing to convert it into Electricity first.

Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#156

Post by preisschild »

Aachen wrote: post #149
fransje26 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, the well loved trick of playing with statistics to make something look good. The current carbon intensity per KWh in Germany is 526g, vs 50g for France. The average yearly carbon intensity per KWh in Germany, is 354g. So, either the rest 40% of domestically generated power are hyper-polluting, or the other statistics don't hold up. Either way, with such a high carbon intensity, there is nothing to brag about. And…

Where do you find the current value? Since it's rather different from the yearly average, it sounds like it's (close to) live and I've been looking for live production stats (more granular than "what was it yesterday") but couldn't find it

https://app.electricitymaps.com/

Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#157

Post by preisschild »

dasKrokodil wrote: post #123
insane_dreamer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if it wasn't for France having primarily used nuclear power decades ago, Europe as a whole would be in a much much worse state when it comes to CO2 emissions. That makes it abundantly clear that nuclear needs to be a part of the mix when it comes to non-emission generating energy production.

Let's see... nuclear power is super expensive, relies on finite uranium resources and there is no safe solution to store the waste. Do we really want to rely on this?

> nuclear power is super expensive

That is debatable, nuclear power can be really cheap when managed correctly. See for example Ontario, Canada or France during the 70s-90s.

Many nuclear power plants can have life times of more than 8 decades and only the initial build and licensing is the expansive part, so if you average the cost over the total life time it is rather cheap.

https://www.iea.org/reports/projected-costs-of-generating-el...

> relies on finite uranium resources

https://whatisnuclear.com/nuclear-sustainability.html

> there is no safe solution to store the waste

If its so unsafe, why has there not been a single major accident with used fuel from civilian nuclear power plants? We have been using hundreds of NPPs for decades, yet not a single fatality.

The truth is, nuclear waste can be and is managed safely.

See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_cask_storage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KBS-3

Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#158

Post by ziotom78 »

dasKrokodil wrote: post #123
insane_dreamer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if it wasn't for France having primarily used nuclear power decades ago, Europe as a whole would be in a much much worse state when it comes to CO2 emissions. That makes it abundantly clear that nuclear needs to be a part of the mix when it comes to non-emission generating energy production.

Let's see... nuclear power is super expensive, relies on finite uranium resources and there is no safe solution to store the waste. Do we really want to rely on this?

“Super expensive” for who builds them, or "super expensive" for the end user paying their electricity bill?

Also, there are safe solutions to store nuclear waste. They are not 1.0e31% secure, but many other kinds of power plants carry significant risks [1] [2] [3]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajont_Dam

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmington_Mine_disaster

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Connecticut_power_plant_e...

Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#159

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

giardini wrote: post #100

Where's the Gibraltar Wave Farm? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar_Wave_Farm Perhaps omitted since Gibraltar is a British possession and therefore not in the EU?

Unlikely that reason as Britain itself is included in the map

Re: A pretty visualisation of the European power grid (2022)

#160

Post by seb1204 »

rjmunro wrote: post #141

It's a nice UI, and there is interesting data in there, but I think it is just an static estimate of averages, rather than something linked to actual live data like http://gridwatch.co.uk/ or https://gridwatch.templar.co.uk/france/ It's not super clear. It says it's using 2 hour slots, but there's no clock saying when it was last updated or anything.

Also https://explore.openelectricity.org.au/energy/nem/?range=7d&...
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