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The capacitor that Apple soldered incorrectly at the factory

downtowndougbrown.com

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Re: The capacitor that Apple soldered incorrectly at the factory

#151
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With things like the Mac 128k, reliability issues may partly be down to Steve Job’s dislike of cooling fans.

To be honest, cooling fans never get the attention they deserve and end up whiney or buzzy. That said, apple did a really good job with mac pro cooling fans where the shroud spun with the blades. I think it did better than the the best PC cooling fans like noctua.

I always built PCs with the largest diameter fans possible - not sure why so many things come with tiny fans. Loads more airflow with less noise and even if they do spin up fast the noise they make is much more pleasant.

Re: The capacitor that Apple soldered incorrectly at the factory

#152
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you're too young to remember, but people used to keep TVs for much longer periods before HDTV and flat panels came out. Also, these TVs are apparently fire hazards. It doesn't matter that they're 20 years old (at the point of the "recall" in 2010). I doubt the parts necessary to fix them were out of production; you can get parts for truly ancient electronics still. Things like capacitors don't become obsolete.…

This. I’ve known a TV that was in more or less daily use for over 30 years. Not sure why we stopped expecting that from electronics.

> daily use for over 30 years

However that doesn't imply TVs were that reliable.

Before the 90s TV repairman was a regular job, and TVs often needed occasional expensive servicing. I remember a local TV repair place in the 90s which serviced "old" TVs.

Re: The capacitor that Apple soldered incorrectly at the factory

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please think for a moment not only about whether it's feasible for AMZN to run a safety testing program for all possible consumer products of our modern technological civilization, but whether you really want them to be in charge of it. Maybe they should just require certifications of testing in the jurisdictions where those products are sold?

Isn't faking certs already a problem?

Probably. Is it a worse problem than Amazon inspecting themselves would be? Is it a worse problem than Amazon demonstrably already has with policing counterfeits? I'm just saying, you could hardly ask for a less-qualified authority for product testing. At least with independent certs it's vaguely possible to align the incentives correctly. With Amazon the incentives would be hosed from the start.

Re: The capacitor that Apple soldered incorrectly at the factory

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except for some Samsung appliances made ~ 2010-2014 which seemed to fail just after their warranties expired. And? That just sounds like they have good engineers. If you are designing a machine, you have an target lifetime. You'd obviously want the product to last through the warranty period, because warranty claims are a cost to the company. Every choice of a component affects lifetime. Designers of mass-market pr…

You're making a pretty awkward value judgement about what a "good" engineer is, but you're describing an unethical one with a bizword like "value engineering". I realize ethics are no longer understood by much of Western society because the culture teaches transactionality, worships trickle-down economics and greed, and hyperindividualism. > It isn't that. It's pressure at the shelf that does it. Consumers behavior s…

A good engineer is one that has a job, doesn't put their employer out of business, and produces work that fulfills the requirements they're given.

Many people think there's some unethical conspiracy going on, and consumers actually want a product that lasts a long time, but companies are refusing to give it to them. But this is projection of individual preferences on to the market as a whole. Consumers want cheap shit that is in fashion, and their buying preferences prove this time and again. Maybe you want a 50 year old toaster in your kitchen, other people are buying products based on other factors.

If consumers really wanted to pay a premium for high duty-cycle equipment with premium lifespans, they can already do that by buying commercial grade equipment. But they don't.

If you are familiar with the history of home appliances, you'd probably come to appreciate the phrase 'value engineering'. Even poor people can afford basic electric appliances now because of the ingenuous ways that engineers have designed surprisingly usable appliances out of very minimal and efficient designs.

If you look at ads for electric toasters 100 years ago, you'd see they cost over $300 in today's money adjusted for inflation. Thank god for value engineering.

Re: The capacitor that Apple soldered incorrectly at the factory

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ceramic capacitors don't have polarity. Electrolytic ones do. Thing is, electrolytic capacitors have far higher capacitance for their size -- though also higher resistance. It's something to check, but the polar ones should be clearly marked as such.

Electrolytic capacitors are kinda like lead-acid batteries in that they are polarized through manufacturing processes. A voltage is applied in the factory to anodize the anode with a thin oxide layer. For fun, I think it would be possible to buy a quality low voltage cap and reverse the polarity of it in-situ which would remove the anodization from the new cathode and deposit a new layer on the new anode (former cath…

> Any much older than that need to be checked out-of-circuit for ESR and then capacitance

And that's a very time consuming and somewhat risky operation on an old machine you want to keep running. Some old PCBs are quite fragile.

I wish there was a way to test capacitors without removing them.

Re: The capacitor that Apple soldered incorrectly at the factory

#157
post #67
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really the case? Because if so, it seems like simply replacing the capacitors would save a lot of waste and unnecessary purchases of new TVs...

This is a very common fault, yes. Power supply issues in general. It is also not uncommon for people to replace e.g. Wifi routers because the wall warts fail. It comes down to a few people don't knowing a lot about it - and I'm not blaming anyone for that, we all have our interests and most people have more than enough to do already to worry about what goes on inside their stuff. Also, electronics are, to a lot of pe…

> And of course a few hours of skilled labour in a big city ...

In many/most places, these repair shops don't even exist any more, because the products have gotten too complicated/integrated/parts-unavailable, and the economics are nonsensical.

Re: The capacitor that Apple soldered incorrectly at the factory

#158
post #114
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 3D printer where presumably a smoothing cap just fell off the X axis controller section of the mainboard. Didn't make a lick of difference in anything operationally. Still works great.

Checks out, most boards are made with very conservative amounts of decoupling capacitance because it’s way easier than dealing with random failures due to not enough capacitance

I've understood that capacitors can be used for timing, or smoothing a voltage after a power regulator (I think).

How/what does adding capacitance help with?

Re: The capacitor that Apple soldered incorrectly at the factory

#159
post #120
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forget “cheap”. As far as I can tell, many modern ungrounded power supplies, including Apple’s, have enough A/C coupling from the line to the output that you can feel a bit of tingling when you touch a metallic object connected to the output.

How is this even allowed? My tv had it. My MacBooks since time memorial have it. They all feel “spicy”.

The Y capacitor is needed to allow the EMI to have a way to ground from the output rather than going out and getting radiated by the output lines.

Re: The capacitor that Apple soldered incorrectly at the factory

#160
post #159
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this even allowed? My tv had it. My MacBooks since time memorial have it. They all feel “spicy”.

The Y capacitor is needed to allow the EMI to have a way to ground from the output rather than going out and getting radiated by the output lines.

I don’t believe for a second that this is actually necessary in a way results in that spicy feeling. I do believe that it’s far cheaper to use a Y capacitor than to come up with a better filter network that works well, though.
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