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How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

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Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#151
post #6

Astonishing. Completely backwards. This article describes how to give feedback to your subordinates, not to your superiors. If your superiors are unable to process no-fluff information, regardless of whether it's feedback or updates, they have no business lording over anyone and will sink whatever function they have oversight of. If you find yourself working under such people, don't bother giving feedback, start poli…

At [company that purportedly highly values candor], I’ve seen multiple people get canned by VPs or directors they’ve criticized internally. Granted, these situations were cases where this was communicated either in a larger feedback meeting that was supposed to be a “safe” space for such feedback, or via other communications that were visible to more than just the person being criticized. These criticisms were defini…

Seen this dance many times

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#152
One foremost aspect I see missing in the discussion is:

"It depends"

It depends massively and that's the main problem. So I'd focus on understanding how that works with this specific manager M you are concerned about. It will be different with another manager. After that it's detail. Managers are human, flawed, not anywhere near rational (not fully rational anyway), and in some cases crooked or insane. Just like their reports and bosses, kind of? Try and feel out how that manager operates before "doing anyone a service".

In particular, it means not relying on the idea that they would reason the same as you do.

Because for example, absolutely "providing info so they get to look good, privately so there is no loss of face" will blow up in your face with some managers. Even if it's to the detriment of that manager.

In some cases, it will be even worse than this because that manager will be well ahead of you and already have their own plans in place for their own future. In a case like this it's not even necessarily possible for you to imagine what reaction you might get.

To be fair, there is a general plan available for you: Cultivate a network, keep your resume in front of people. Then you can be bolder.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#153
Superiors love to solve their problem first, its as simple as that. Not in a bad way but they are dealing with 10 times issues compare to your own level issues. Manager > Team Lead > IC so start there. Dont just complaint about superior, try to deal with it from problem solving approach.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#154
post #93

Most of those examples (not giving enough direction, not training new hires enough, not being clear enough on priorities) are probably not going to be surprises for the person, and if you give feedback that shows you want someone to behave differently without having given some thought about why they aren't already then your feedback talks more about your own lack of experience and empathy than anything else. To give…

I don't think a manager will be impressed by a report saying "I know you can't do your whole job, so let me handle face time with the execs so I can take your job from you."

> I don't think a manager will be impressed by a report saying

It's funny because it could go exactly the two opposite ways. If you "report the problem", you might be - totally as punishment - volunteered into the position to work on it, in addition to your normal workload. If you "report the problem and volunteer to do something about it", you might be shot down. Hilarious, right?

That's back to the fundamental problem: you need to work on building an understanding of your manager. You have the workload assigned to you, then you have everything you need to do to further your own career.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#156
This title of my article doesn't make much sense to me. Why would you get fired for giving feedback? Is this just a US thing? I give feedback to my superiors all the time, and expect my subordinates to do the same. In fact, as far as my team goes, you're more likely to get into trouble (not fired) if you rarely give feedback.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#157

This title of my article doesn't make much sense to me. Why would you get fired for giving feedback? Is this just a US thing? I give feedback to my superiors all the time, and expect my subordinates to do the same. In fact, as far as my team goes, you're more likely to get into trouble (not fired) if you rarely give feedback.

when your boss is a one-upper who doesnt understand your teams product, they will do everything possible to sabatoge your efforts and spin metrics to make you look bad. attempting to give feedback to such a person will get you this response: "you need to earn trust and learn to disagree and commit".

idk if this is a US thing; its mainly a thing where a manager is tasked with supporting a product that they dont understand. managers in these situations attempt to treat their managerial role as if the product itself does not matter - the team has metrics to hit, and to them thats more important than the product.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#158

Do not give feedback to your boss. https://www.manager-tools.com/2012/02/do-not-give-feedback-y...

Would you be so kind provide a summary of your link? The show notes cost $15!

NotebookLM is very decent at giving summaries to lengthy audio files:

The sources strongly advise against giving feedback to your boss, even if your boss claims to be open to it. This is due to the inherent power dynamics in organizations and the potential negative consequences. Here's why:

- Power Differentials: Organizations have vertical structures where bosses have more power, authority, and responsibility [1-3]. This means that certain behaviors, like giving feedback, are reserved for those in higher positions [3].

- Risk of Negative Reaction: Even if a boss claims to be open to feedback, they might react negatively, consciously or subconsciously, to criticism from their subordinates [4-6]. This can lead to:

- Damaged Relationships: The boss may view the feedback as insubordination or a lack of respect, straining the relationship [7]. Stalled Career Progress: The boss may hold a grudge, potentially impacting future promotions or opportunities [7].

- Job Security: In extreme cases, giving unsolicited feedback could even lead to termination [8].

- Misinterpretation and Misunderstanding: Bosses often interpret upward feedback as a challenge to their authority or a lack of understanding of the complexities of their role [9, 10]. They might feel that the direct is overstepping their boundaries or does not have enough experience to offer valid criticisms [11].

- Breakdown of Hierarchy: Allowing upward feedback can blur the lines of authority and lead to a situation where directs feel empowered to dictate their boss's actions [9]. This can create chaos and undermine the effectiveness of the team.

- False Sense of Openness: Many bosses want to believe they are open to feedback, but in reality, very few are truly capable of handling it maturely and constructively [12, 13]. Their initial openness might just be a facade that crumbles when faced with actual criticism [14].

The sources highlight that while it's tempting to give upward feedback, especially with good intentions, it's generally unproductive and carries significant risks. They advocate for focusing on alternative approaches like offering suggestions during brainstorming sessions or providing input through formalized channels like 360 reviews, while exercising extreme caution even in those situations.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#159
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that's how it should be, but experience tells me that everyone is insecure and it's hardly correlated with position and job security. People lower down the chain are insecure because they could legitimately be let go at any time for any reason. People higher up the chain are insecure because any loss of face is debilitating. Especially having failings pointed out by someone "below" them.

> People higher up the chain are insecure because any loss of face is debilitating. You don't do it in public. There's no face to lose in private (you're a subordinate, face is only lost among peers and superiors). It is, however, not really a good idea to be 100% blunt out of the gate. There's a dance to it. But in public, I'm there to make my manager look good, and in private I'll tell them exactly what I think. On…

Most people can, some people can’t - and the ones who can’t can be incredibly dangerous.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#160

This title of my article doesn't make much sense to me. Why would you get fired for giving feedback? Is this just a US thing? I give feedback to my superiors all the time, and expect my subordinates to do the same. In fact, as far as my team goes, you're more likely to get into trouble (not fired) if you rarely give feedback.

when your boss is a one-upper who doesnt understand your teams product, they will do everything possible to sabatoge your efforts and spin metrics to make you look bad. attempting to give feedback to such a person will get you this response: "you need to earn trust and learn to disagree and commit". idk if this is a US thing; its mainly a thing where a manager is tasked with supporting a product that they dont unders…

> give feedback to such a person will get you this response: "you need to earn trust and learn to disagree and commit"

Sure, but you won't get fired, right?

Even so, this is just about dealing in general with people who have ego (for the sake of brevity) issues. I don't understand why this should be advice for dealing with senior leadership in general.

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