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Jaywalking legalized in New York City

theguardian.com

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Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#151

Post by tsimionescu »

timr wrote: post #98
tsimionescu wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically it means that pedestrians are allowed to cross the road anywhere, anytime, but they still have to yield to car traffic except at pedestrian crossings without a semaphore or at the Walk signal. It's a very common-sense law.

> they still have to yield to car traffic except at pedestrian crossings without a semaphore or at the Walk signal. This isn't true. Car traffic must yield to pedestrians. Pedestrians don't always have the right of way, but you (hopefully obviously) can't just arbitrarily mow them down. The only time this would matter is if you hit someone and it went to court. Thus in practice, you have to yield to pedestrians whene…

No, this is a misunderstanding of what right of way means. Drivers are never allowed to intentionally cause accidents, either with other cars or with pedestrians. If you have right of way in an intersection but a car is nevertheless not yielding to you, you are not allowed to plow into them if you can reasonably avoid it. That doesn't mean that you don't actually have right of way, or that you need to stop at every intersection to make sure that someone is not yielding.

The same is true with pedestrians crossing where they have to yield to cars. It's their responsibility to check that no cars are passing before crossing. At a crosswalk, drivers will slow down if they see a pedestrian heading towards the crossing; they don't need to (and won't) at other places. Of course, if they see a pedestrian in the middle of the road, they are not allowed to hit them, just like they're not allowed to hit a car.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#152

Post by macintux »

pm3003 wrote: post #49
e1g wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had an identity crisis in Germany when, at 2am on a deserted road, a group of hooligan-looking teenage boys told me off for crossing on red.

Something like that happened to me on my first day as an adult in Germany. Wide road, Sunday afternoon, visibility over 1km in both directions, not a car in sight. I was accompanied by a girl from the place where I was to work. I had just met her and she was showing me to the nearby convenience store. She suddenly started screaming when I crossed the street while the pedestrian light was red. I didn't get what the pr…

I was observing a parade once and stepped into the stopped traffic to talk to a driver about his vehicle.

I felt terrible later when I realized I had set a dangerous example for all of the kids around.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#153

Post by elif »

standardUser wrote: post #108

First, let's not forget that jaywalking is one of those "crimes" that is used as a pretense by police to harass people, usually young people and people of color. Second, as a veteran jaywalker, my rule of thumb is that if a car has to hit their breaks even a little, or otherwise alter their trajectory, you're doing it wrong. The goal should be smooth movement for all. Third, just because someone else is jaywalking do…

Yea the herd mentality is why jaywalking is unethical. I've witnessed someone try to cross early, triggering literally ~20 people to follow, only for the light to change and everyone collectively realized they had no right of way and stepped back.

It's easy to see how this could result in tragedy.

Germany, Japan, there is strict social compliance so it feels right anyway.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#154

Post by havblue »

ferrous69 wrote: post #119
standardUser wrote: post #108

First, let's not forget that jaywalking is one of those "crimes" that is used as a pretense by police to harass people, usually young people and people of color. Second, as a veteran jaywalker, my rule of thumb is that if a car has to hit their breaks even a little, or otherwise alter their trajectory, you're doing it wrong. The goal should be smooth movement for all. Third, just because someone else is jaywalking do…

> if a car has to hit their breaks even a little, or otherwise alter their trajectory, you're doing it wrong. this is basically NYC law already, including pedestrian interactions

One time when I jaywalked in NYC I could have sworn that a cab, who was a half block away, accelerated when he saw me crossing the street. My impression has always been that people hate having their time wasted.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#155

Post by ryandrake »

AStonesThrow wrote: post #63

I grew up in Southern California. My parents strictly observed traffic laws, and riding in the car with them, I would often hear their disapproving gossip about pedestrians' faux pas , including wearing black at night. In high school, a classmate tried to help me loosen up a bit, and he'd encourage our group to cross a busy stroad. "They'll stop! They'll stop for you!" he assured me. He was right... I visited Catalon…

> My justification is that a theoretical personal injury lawsuit is easier to litigate, if I can prove I was doing everything right.

I guess the way I see it is if you want your grave stone to read "Here lies AStonesThrow. He had the right of way!" then by all means, step out into traffic--they'll always stop for you.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#156

Post by int_19h »

pm3003 wrote: post #49
e1g wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had an identity crisis in Germany when, at 2am on a deserted road, a group of hooligan-looking teenage boys told me off for crossing on red.

Something like that happened to me on my first day as an adult in Germany. Wide road, Sunday afternoon, visibility over 1km in both directions, not a car in sight. I was accompanied by a girl from the place where I was to work. I had just met her and she was showing me to the nearby convenience store. She suddenly started screaming when I crossed the street while the pedestrian light was red. I didn't get what the pr…

This is also very much the agitprop in Russia, although in practice people mostly just ignore it. Sometimes in very frustrating ways, too, like crossing the road on red in front of an ambulance with the emergency light on.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#157

Post by abeppu »

standardUser wrote: post #108

First, let's not forget that jaywalking is one of those "crimes" that is used as a pretense by police to harass people, usually young people and people of color. Second, as a veteran jaywalker, my rule of thumb is that if a car has to hit their breaks even a little, or otherwise alter their trajectory, you're doing it wrong. The goal should be smooth movement for all. Third, just because someone else is jaywalking do…

> First, let's not forget that jaywalking is one of those "crimes" that is used as a pretense by police to harass people, usually young people and people of color.

But let's also not pretend that decriminalizing jaywalking ends this harassment. In 2023, California decriminalized jaywalking when it's not dangerous to cross. But police have still used jaywalking as a pretense for stopping (and assaulting) people. https://missionlocal.org/2024/09/sf-violent-jaywalking-incid...

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#158

Post by ryandrake »

Mawr wrote: post #106
reedf1 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Granted you've misinterpreted the posters point - but I will respond to your perception of his point (which I agree with). You could easily imagine a world where pedestrians have the right of way on the streets, and cars "request access to the road" in a similar way that pedestrians do. Actually, if this is not easy for you to imagine - it suggests enormous internal bias.

No need to imagine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqQSwQLDIK8

Wow, an intersection like that in the USA would have at least one road rage death per day from violently impatient drivers.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#159

Post by jedberg »

As far as I know, NYC is unique in that pedestrians do not have the right of way. Everywhere else you must legally stop for a pedestrian but in NYC you don't. (edit, since people seem confused: This doesn't mean you can run them over. It just means you don't have to stop if you are going to block their path. Everywhere else, you have to stop if you are going to block a pedestrian's path, no matter where that pedestrian is.)

They have to do this or people would just block all traffic all the time.

So this really is just to stop racial profiling. It's really not going to change much in the day to day goings on in NYC.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#160

Post by mslate »

standardUser wrote: post #108

First, let's not forget that jaywalking is one of those "crimes" that is used as a pretense by police to harass people, usually young people and people of color. Second, as a veteran jaywalker, my rule of thumb is that if a car has to hit their breaks even a little, or otherwise alter their trajectory, you're doing it wrong. The goal should be smooth movement for all. Third, just because someone else is jaywalking do…

Yes yes, the person outside of a car must provide deference to the car owner. Poor people serve the rich.
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